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mpcasey
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Hi guys. Not sure what sort of can o' worms I'm cracking open here but I'd like to hear from people, what type of effects you use for teaching the principals of tithing to children. Ages range from 3-6 and 7-11 years old in two distinct groups.

Thanks Smile
Ken Sibley
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Six Bill Repeat
Tell me and I forget. Show me and I remember. Involve me and I understand!
mpcasey
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Can't say I'm familiar with that effect Ken, but Ill be sure to look it up. Thanks for the suggestion though, really appreciate it.
Dan Bernier
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Just curious. What is the purpose of teaching the principals of tithing to children? Do they have jobs? Or, are they getting groomed for slave labour at their churches.(lol) All kidding aside, why the preaching of tithing to children?
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The Miser's Dream
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mpcasey
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Hi Gospel Dan.

Valid question. My personal belief is that according to Proverbs 22:6 (Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it)we should be instilling integral aspects of life as Christians such as tithing, prayer and the gospel into the children God has entrusted to us from an early age.
mpcasey
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I thought I should also add, that the kids aren't forced to tithe, and when they do we're looking at what the world would consider an insignificant amount (although, it's incredibly significant in the eyes of God, which is what counts). And obviously, no, they don't have jobs, so whatever money they have to give comes from their parents/guardians, which to me indicates support for the action, since if they don't want their child tithing or giving an offering to God, they don't give the child money to do so.

As an added bonus to the whole situation, at least this way when the kid comes of age and gets himself a job there isn't that moment of "surprise! give God your money!" Smile
Terry Owens
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I tithed as a child, when I got birthday money, or allowance, I would make sure I gave a tithe of what I received...that's a great time to start.

What about multiplying bananas
KENNYRB
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Any effect that involves the idea of obedience will work. ie. have them do or say something before the magic happens. Thus, when you obey good things happen. In this way any magic trick can work.
Dan Bernier
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Quote:
On 2009-07-13 03:13, mpcasey wrote:
Hi Gospel Dan.

Valid question. My personal belief is that according to Proverbs 22:6 (Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it)we should be instilling integral aspects of life as Christians such as tithing, prayer and the gospel into the children God has entrusted to us from an early age.


I agree with you. I recently had someone ask me the same question in almost the same fashion when commenting on my Miser's Dream routine which has to do with tithing. When talking about tithing, I also talk about how the church functions. I make it more about supporting your church than I do about tithing 10 percent. However, I recently ran into a older fellow who felt a spiritual need to convince me to not preach tithing to young children as it wasn't biblically correct or spiritually healthy to burden children with adult responsibilities. I'm still somewhat baffled about it. Smile
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Donald Dunphy
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At the Sunday School I help out with, we take up an offering as a part of the kids worship service. And I would guess that the parents give their children money to put in the bucket. We use the money to support a child in Ethiopia, and for other church needs. My parents gave me money for collection at church when I was a child.

I think that tithing is about a couple of themes:

(1) Stewardship. The concept that God owns all, and we are stewards. When we tithe we are giving Him what already belongs to Him.

(2) Thanksgiving. The concept that we are to be thankful to God for the way He provides for us. And giving money to support the church, etc, is one way of demonstrating our gratitude.

Those are certainly concepts that children should learn.

Sometimes, we tend to focus on the 10% we are "losing", instead of the 90% we still have. And so to ease our fears, we think about God replacing that 10%, even abundantly.

Motives also play into tithing, as to whether it's obedient and loving, or not. Are you doing it because it's right, because it's tradition, because you want to, because others expect you to, because you are expecting something in return, etc.?

Personally, I would be careful with the theme of "giving to get" or "God gives us lots more to replace our sacrifice when we give to the church." I'll admit this theme can sometimes come into play with a 6 bill repeat or a miser's dream or a coin tray routine. Sometimes what is taught as a theme of tithing can easily become the prosperity gospel. That reduces concepts like tithing to a manipulation of God for our own gains.

It's certainly true that God gives blessings when we are obedient out of love (and those blessings don't necessarily have to be monetary), but we have to be careful not to teach manipulating God.

God is God, and we are not.

- Donald
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dan Bernier
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Quote:
On 2009-07-14 21:09, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Personally, I would be careful with the theme of "giving to get" or "God gives us lots more to replace our sacrifice when we give to the church." I'll admit this theme can sometimes come into play with a 6 bill repeat or a miser's dream or a coin tray routine. Sometimes what is taught as a theme of tithing can easily become the prosperity gospel. That reduces concepts like tithing to a manipulation of God for our own gains.

It's certainly true that God gives blessings when we are obedient out of love (and those blessings don't necessarily have to be monetary), but we have to be careful not to teach manipulating God.

God is God, and we are not.

- Donald


I'll amen that. Smile
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stempleton
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I purchased, but as yet have not presented, "Big Bucks,", in reverse,which illustrates the 10% that is often difficult to understand. By using basically an Elmsley count, the 4 $100 bills turn into 4 $10 bills. I, like Terry, tithed from my allowances, yard work payments, etc. So I believe it is a viable lesson for gospel work for children.
Steven Conner
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On 2009-07-13 00:20, Gospel Dan wrote:
Just curious. What is the purpose of teaching the principals of tithing to children? Do they have jobs? Or, are they getting groomed for slave labour at their churches.(lol) All kidding aside, why the preaching of tithing to children?


First of all, God made us stewards of what he already owns. We are just giving back a portion of what he gave to us. Just as we teach God's Word, tithing is all part of that teaching. We miss out on God's Blessings when we don't tithe. Children need to learn this. Small jobs, allowances, etc.
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John Long
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I will stick my neck out here..

"Tithing", meaning 10% of income, is NOT the biblical standard for giving. There is not one passage in the new testament that recommends the believer give 10% of his income, and it wasn't the standard in the old testament.

Stewardship, is the issue, as giving with the right motives. The new testament only teaches to give "not grudgingly, or under compulsion (i.e.; "tithing")", but "cheerfully" (2Cor 9:7). The problem with "tithing" is that people either feel guilty if they don't give 10%, or they feel justified to do as they like with the remaining 90%. Both represent a misunderstanding ot the scriptures.

In the old testament, there were three "tithes", count them:

1. First Tithe: Annual tithe for the maintenance of the Levites:
Lev 27:30, Num 18:21-24, Neh 10:37,38

2. Second tithe brought to Jerusalem for the Lord's feast(Deut 12:17,18; Deut 14:22)
- for a festival; a National Potluck!
- Could convert to money if distance was far(Deut 14:24)

3. Third Tithe; given every third year(Deut 14:28-29)
- For the Levites, alien, orphans and widow(s)

These three would average out to 23 1/3% of ones income,

But, as those cheesey informercials used to say, but wait, there's more!


- 1/3 shekel Tax; for service of the temple (Ex 30:11-16, Neh 10:32-33)

- Gleaning (Lev 19:9-10)

- Year of the Sabbath; every 7'th yr lenders give borrowers release from all debt(Deut 15)

- Rest Land every 7'th year; average loss in income would be %14 (Ex 23:10-11)


- and then there were the voluntary "offereings" (Mal 3:10)

So, if you want to base you giving on the OT, be ready to hand over a lot more than 10% (but I am not saying that that should be our standard either).

If anyone is interested, I have a ~2 page text file that I can email, that lists out all the types of giving that happen, before, during, and after the "law".

So, I would not recommend teaching on "tithing", but to talk about stewardship - God owns it all, not just the 10%, and we are accountable for what we do with 100% of what God has entrusted to us.
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Dan Bernier
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And once again, I amen that. I originally asked my question in almost the same manner the question was asked to me by an older gentleman at church. I don't preach on tithing, but about supporting the church and good stewardship. I was taken back by how the question was posed to me. I really never put a whole lot of thought into it until I seen mpcasey thread. I am really interrested to hear what others think about tithing, stewardship, and supporting your local church. Especially on teaching children. I don't do the multiplying balls as much anymore because I use the Miser's Dream. However, one thing I always stayed away from was tithing 10 percent. I've also stayed away from preaching that if you tithe, God will increase your givings. In short, I use the Miser's Dream to demonstate how a little of what we got can be a lot to someone else. Even when we think we have nothing to give, we always have something. Doesn't have to be money, and so on.
I'm glad to see the responses so far. I believe that when we are performing for children we have to have a real justification for it, and not just an opportunity to perform tricks. I have to face this gentleman again this Sunday, and I want to be able to explain to him my justification. Thanks guys.
:)
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KENNYRB
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Quote:
On 2009-07-15 10:21, Steven Conner wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-07-13 00:20, Gospel Dan wrote:
Just curious. What is the purpose of teaching the principals of tithing to children? Do they have jobs? Or, are they getting groomed for slave labour at their churches.(lol) All kidding aside, why the preaching of tithing to children?


First of all, God made us stewards of what he already owns. We are just giving back a portion of what he gave to us. Just as we teach God's Word, tithing is all part of that teaching. We miss out on God's Blessings when we don't tithe. Children need to learn this. Small jobs, allowances, etc.


Children at all ages need to learn to share and to give. And yes, they also need to learn about sacrifice. Most kids in the USA are selfish and self centered. And if we are lucky maybe they will take the lessons home and teach their parents who often don't get it either. The truth is there is nothing in God's Word that is bad for children to learn.
flourish dude
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I once took my child shopping so she could buy me a gift for my birthday. I drove her there in my car, spent my time shopping with her then paid for my gift with my money and finally took her home where she used my wrapping paper to wrap my gift.

The joy on her face when she presented me with the gift was priceless.
Even though she felt real important and like she was "giving" me something she really did not give me anything at all. I provided for my own gift.

We are that child! Anything and everything what we have or give is provided to us from the Lord.

The important lesson for a child to learn is this:

We find joy in giving just as my daughter joyfully gave to me but we must understand where it came from to start with. The law was given twice, once in Exodus and then again in Deuteronomy. Was there a difference? YES! In Deuteronomy it speaks of "From the Heart" In the New Testament Jesus says if you don't exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees Matt 5:20 you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. How could this be done? They were perfect!

They were perfect yes BUT only outwardly. Inwardly they were not. If we tithe outwardly does it make us perfect? NO! 2Co 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Before we receive Christ as savior the law was written on stone. After, it is written on our hearts. The difference is one is dead and the other is alive, one is "have too" the other is "want to"

Instead of 10% we need to pray and ask the Lord how much we should give. That is maybe 10%...maybe more...maybe less. Once God speaks to you then you give it from the heart. If you become resentful of your giving then I am sure God would say "Keep it, I don't need it anyway. What I do need is your heart!"

Remember this, you can't out give the Lord. It is all His to begin with. IF you trust Him in this He will bless you.
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John Long
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Quote:
On 2009-07-30 15:55, flourish dude wrote:
I once took my child shopping so she could buy me a gift for my birthday. I drove her there in my car, spent my time shopping with her then paid for my gift with my money and finally took her home where she used my wrapping paper to wrap my gift.

The joy on her face when she presented me with the gift was priceless.
Even though she felt real important and like she was "giving" me something she really did not give me anything at all. I provided for my own gift.

We are that child! Anything and everything what we have or give is provided to us from the Lord.

The important lesson for a child to learn is this:

We find joy in giving just as my daughter joyfully gave to me but we must understand where it came from to start with.


I really like that "word-picture"; something to help me remember.
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Bendy
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Quote:
On 2009-07-30 15:55, flourish dude wrote:
I once took my child shopping so she could buy me a gift for my birthday. I drove her there in my car, spent my time shopping with her then paid for my gift with my money and finally took her home where she used my wrapping paper to wrap my gift.

The joy on her face when she presented me with the gift was priceless.
Even though she felt real important and like she was "giving" me something she really did not give me anything at all. I provided for my own gift.

We are that child! Anything and everything what we have or give is provided to us from the Lord.

The important lesson for a child to learn is this:

We find joy in giving just as my daughter joyfully gave to me but we must understand where it came from to start with. The law was given twice, once in Exodus and then again in Deuteronomy. Was there a difference? YES! In Deuteronomy it speaks of "From the Heart" In the New Testament Jesus says if you don't exceed the righteousness of the Pharisees Matt 5:20 you will not enter into the kingdom of heaven. How could this be done? They were perfect!

They were perfect yes BUT only outwardly. Inwardly they were not. If we tithe outwardly does it make us perfect? NO! 2Co 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Before we receive Christ as savior the law was written on stone. After, it is written on our hearts. The difference is one is dead and the other is alive, one is "have too" the other is "want to"

Instead of 10% we need to pray and ask the Lord how much we should give. That is maybe 10%...maybe more...maybe less. Once God speaks to you then you give it from the heart. If you become resentful of your giving then I am sure God would say "Keep it, I don't need it anyway. What I do need is your heart!"

Remember this, you can't out give the Lord. It is all His to begin with. IF you trust Him in this He will bless you.



Very nice! I like that a lot!
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