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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Pascaline Danis Final Load Balls - Painted... (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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cupsandballsmagic
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I just put up a review of the Pascaline Danis Final Load Balls from Jeremy. http://www.cupsandballsmagic.com/Pascali......lls.html It's interesting to note that they are painted underneath to help blend in with the crochet. I've not seen this before but it seems like a good common sense idea...
pepka
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I don't really see why this is necessary. I always finish with at least one of Brett Sherwood's final load balls, (sometimes 4). After 4 years, I've NEVER had someone pick one up and say that the inside ball wasn't the same color as the thread. This is overkill and someone has way too much time on their hands to even think about this, let alone make it.
videoman
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And the reason this ball is better than a tennis ball?

Sometimes I feel like there are vendors who simply try and cash in and take advantage of the cups and balls fanatics (of which I am a card-carrying member and proud of it) and put out products knowing there are plenty of people who have a need to own everything related to C&B magic. I mean I'm not saying these aren't good balls, but I prefer fruit or veggies anyway. I guess if you need your load balls to match your small balls, these may fit the bill.

Bill
pepka
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It costs more, so it must be better. No, I can see someone wanting a final load that matches the small balls they use. I like that myself. 4 loads, one is identical and 3 different, or 3 identical and one different. Don't ask me why, that's just how I like it. I do however stand by my first opinion saying that to paint the balls the same color is really ridiculous. I'll wait for Pete or Bill to change my mind.
L Trunk
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It really wouldn't take long to paint a ball.
cupsandballsmagic
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Each to his own I guess, and in fairness I suspect the balls (looking at the cups they are on) that Jeremy has were bought for Kent's routine. I didn't think this post would stir up so much feeling either!

I myself prefer non congruent loads (it's no secret that my favourite final loads are tennis balls), however some people do like congruent loads.

I wouldn't have ever expected anyone to point and say "Hey, the inner core of the ball is a different colour to the crochet jacket." I don't think that's the point at all.

I was simply impressed at the attention to detail, "It's in the details" as they say...
Chris SD
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On 2009-07-16 00:38, pepka wrote:
It costs more, so it must be better. No, I can see someone wanting a final load that matches the small balls they use. I like that myself. 4 loads, one is identical and 3 different, or 3 identical and one different. Don't ask me why, that's just how I like it. I do however stand by my first opinion saying that to paint the balls the same color is really ridiculous. I'll wait for Pete or Bill to change my mind.


The load balls from M. Danis are reasonably priced for what they are; beautiful hand made props. I'm sure the painting is a small fraction of the cost, and considering how much you tout the work of people like Brett Sherwood, it's absolutely asinine for you to criticize anyone's work on the basis of cost.

Brett Sherwood charges $28 per load ball, M. Danis charges less than half that for double thread load balls.
pepka
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To be honest, I didn't even look at the price. I was just making the point that I don't see why someone would paint the ball when it's going to be covered with the thread.
cupsandballsmagic
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Pepka,

I think it's just attention to detail so that from a small distance it all blends. I have some balls where the cork shows through the tiny gaps in the crochet, no layman has ever commented on it and it's not the end of the world but it's nice to see a manufacturer going the extra mile to produce something exceptional rather than mediocre.

I do believe that you might have checked the price before posting "It costs more, so it must be better." though Smile

Bri
Donnie Buckley
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Quote:
On 2009-07-16 00:31, videoman wrote:
Sometimes I feel like there are vendors who simply try and cash in and take advantage of the cups and balls fanatics (of which I am a card-carrying member and proud of it) and put out products knowing there are plenty of people who have a need to own everything related to C&B magic.
Bill

Truth is final load balls are a huge pain to make and even $28 per ball is not enough considering how many hours it takes to hand crochet just one. Go ahead and take one to someone you know who knit crochets and ask them to make one for you - they will laugh in your face! Right now I'm having a HUGE problem getting these balls produced, don't tell me it's "greed" that motivates me, because it ain't worth it!
The reason a vendor carries them is because the CUSTOMERS want them and if you don't produce them, you're not satisfying your customers. A lot of GOOD magicians want final load balls that MATCH the working balls. When the working balls are an exotic color or variegated, the vendor NEEDS to provided the matching load balls -where else is the customer going to go to get what they need?

I love congruous loads and I particularly like the method in Pepka's example of combining matching colors for the FIRST production and then varying colors for the next two or three. Vernon did it the other way around, with 3 loads that were the same color and then one odd color kicker.
I also love incongruous loads and am willing to throw anything under a cup that fits!
I like the Danis balls and the Sherwood balls (I own plenty of both!). I like the fact that Danis goes the extra mile to paint the core to match the thread. I've considered doing it myself, for the simple reason that it keeps ball production organized. I have to out-source the hand crocheting so it made sense to me to paint the balls first so there are no mistakes (blue thread on blue ball, red thread on red ball, etc...) - I have not been able to do that, but it still made good sense and maybe some day I'll get that organized!
This thread sure has some strong opinions, hunh? and over what? the full moon was 9 whole days ago...
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Bill Palmer
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I purchased some of these load balls from the Danis a while back. To tell the truth, I did not know that the core had been painted until I checked them last night. If the weave of the crochet is open enough to allow the cork to show through, and it is distracting to you, then a painted core makes a lot of sense. If it's not a problem, then it doesn't make any difference.

Don has a lot on his plate right now, just getting RnT II open again. The market will determine what is practical for him to carry. So will the various makers.

As far as taking advantage of all the cups and balls fanatics is concerned, nobody forces anyone to buy anything. A smart businessman sees a market and works with it. If you could make these yourself, would you do it? If you are a pro, you want the best you can get for your particular purposes.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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pepka
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I just remembered this thread from last night and checked all my Sherwood balls and there is no way to tell what color the core is. He may have the Mona Lisa painted on there, but the weave is too good to tell.
Brett Sherwood
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Quote:
On 2009-07-16 18:37, pepka wrote:
I just remembered this thread from last night and checked all my Sherwood balls and there is no way to tell what color the core is. He may have the Mona Lisa painted on there, but the weave is too good to tell.

Hi Pepka
If you check carefully my recent Deluxe Red/Gold Balls you bought from me will see that they are painted. I was first offering the crochet balls with subtle metallic thread with three types of colours. My Deluxe Balls debuted in 2004 at the IBM and SAM conventions in colours Red/Gold, Blue/Silver and White/Silver. Then the idea was taken and has been marketed without my permission. I started painting the internal balls years ago about a year afterward maybe 2005 and it looks like this aspect too has now too been copied as well - shame this happens. Not only copied, but under-cutting my prices.
The good news is my first Cups and Balls book is getting closer to completion. I should have it completed in a month and then it will be published and copyrighted, so you WILL NOT SEE A COPY OF IT FOR SALE ON THIS SAME WEBSITE!!! That is one way to beat people who copy - keep creating new ideas and protect them!
Cheers,
Brett Sherwood
pepka
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Well shut my mouth! Funny that the one who proves me wrong is someone that I support and didn't know he painted them! I'll just shut up and leave this debate to the experts.

Brett, keep me posted when you have the book (and wands!) ready.
cupsandballsmagic
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So Pepka, you don't think that Brett painting the inner core is "pointless", "really ridiculous" and extorting money from people then?

I didn't even think there was a debate until you chimed in.

I still stand by my opinion that I think it is a good idea and shows great attention to detail.
pepka
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Like I said, the weave on the final load balls from Brett is so tight that you can't see what color the balls is. If you're going to make them that tight, then yes I do not see the point in it. Now, are you happy?
cupsandballsmagic
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I was never unhappy Pepka Smile
Airblader
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To the point of: Why sould someone paint the ball?

I think that it's completely unimportant to spectators. In Fact, nobody cares, when Ammar takes potatoes as final loads, right? But on the other hand ... magician's do so much just for their own pleasures. Why do some cups have to be exactly a special design? Does any spectator care?
Sure - weight, for example, is important for handling the cups. But the exact design not.
Why do some people want their wands to be made of wood? Because they feel it look's better.

And that, I think, is just the same. It's not important for any spectator, but it's a nice little detail for some magician's.

I ordered some balls, too and they have to come in today, tomorrow or on monday, I guess. And I'm looking forward to get them. And, just for the record, I personally don't care about painted core balls, too Smile

air
Bill Palmer
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Sometimes the details make a bigger difference to us than they do to the spectators. OTOH, there is no reason to perform with props you don't particularly care for.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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videoman
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Quote:
On 2009-07-17 03:43, pepka wrote:
Like I said, the weave on the final load balls from Brett is so tight that you can't see what color the balls is. If you're going to make them that tight, then yes I do not see the point in it. Now, are you happy?


Maybe you can't see what color the cores are because they are painted?
The weave may be tight but if the balls weren't painted maybe some of the core would show through. Can't really know for sure unless you can compare them to an unpainted core. And we've learned it's best not to assume which ones are unpainted. Seems like it may be more difficult to make the balls if you had to get each stitch perfect to completely hide the core. So having them painted may offer a little wiggle room to the manufacturer, or at least give them piece of mind.

Also, I would like to apologize for my previous post in this thread. I think I was having a bad day and took it out on Danis's balls. My sincere apologies to anyone it may have offended. I am actually glad there are balls like this available to the magic community.

Bill
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