There is a basic problem with presuming the result of a personal creative act would also be novel in the community.

If you can focus your sense of accomplishment upon the results you get instead of "coming up with something new in magic" you can proceed to find what works for you.

This is true.

My best trick to date is an "original", and one that I came up with haphazardly because I couldn't think of anything else to do with flash paper. No one can believe what happens. I just gotta figure out how to do it in a persons hand. I wonder if people would be reluctant to leave their open hand out for too long after they see that paper light up! Hmm... must think.

I know what you're saying. But it wasn't my intention to "come up" with something. I was just practicing Simple Switch, and I thought, "hey, wait a minute..."

Flash paper scares people even when it's 15 feet away from them. (They do not know how dangerous it is or isn't) I would not take chances putting fire in a spectators hand, or anywhere near a spectator, because there's no way to gauge their reaction.

Are you saying it's a pipe dream, Jordini? Hehe, maybe it is. But dang it, it would be cool as heck.

Hi all,

Watching magic I find the newer/younger guys(myself included) like to add some cool flourishes along with the magic itself-big generalisation there, but there you go. With that in mind I'd like to add that I'm a fan of Harry Loraynes flip-up double lift. His logic of "Why should card men handle cards like laymen" somehow rings true for me. If your an expert performer surely you can act like one? I've never been questioned on this DL, it looks so impossible to do with two cards so it just can't be done eh?... Admitedly I'll never be a pro, just thought I'd voice an opinion.

After reading over some of the comments in this thread, I think that most people are missing the point that Rannie was trying to make earlier: the problem with the DL that Blaine uses is that it looks different from the way he turns over a single card.

Personally, I don't think it matters what DL a person uses, so long as he turns over cards consistently whether it is a single or a double. I have seen far too many magi perfect some kind of DL, which they can pull off with nary a flash, but they only use it as a double; when they want to turn over a single card, they use a completely different technique, and usually something that looks more natural.

I don't think anyone would argue that the way a magician turns over a card has to be consistent with how a layperson turns over a card, but I do believe that it has to be consistent whether the magician is doing a DL or turning over a single card. If you use a different technique to turn over a single and a double, people are going to notice it, even if only subliminally. Ideally, both actions should be identical and indistinguishable from each other.

I've made this point elsewhere, but I think it's worth repeating: regardless of the DL you choose to use, you need to develop the discipline to use that same technique to turn over a single card.

Absolutely. The double I now use is one I learned from Stars of Magic. I think it looks natural and no one has ever caught me one it. But while I was developing a routine where I was flipping singles over on top of the deck, I noticed I was doing it different than the doubles. So I changed the way I flipped the singles to match. And, yes, it felt very strange to flip a single card over that way. But it doesn't look strange at all.

Interesting what we discover when we actually pay attention to what we're doing...

Honestly, I do not use one consistent method of turnover.

I'll do the push-off mostly, but sometimes I'll do a thumb-count get ready, or hold a pinky break. Sometimes I'll do the turnover book-style, or I'll do a push-off and return it to the deck to show people, then book-style turn it back face down using a strike-double.

Why should it be consistent? I mean, why should you put yourself in a position that if by some chance you get caught - everyone watching now can know what you're doing every time?

I agreed that they should be consistent when I began, but as I progress, I feel much differently. I have many methods of turnovers, and it keeps me on my toes. It means I have many variations that I can use depending on my mood, nerves, or my audience. It keeps people guessing.

I just can't understand why you would want to limit yourself to ONE method. If you are dedicated, you are always learning something. So why should you find one you like, and then stop looking? Would you rather learn 100 ways of controlling a card to the top, or 100 ways of showing a double as a single? Seems obvious to me. And for that matter, why not learn both - and learn them effectively.

It just seems lazy to say that you should only do one. That just really doesn't make sense to me.

Seems like a lot of people are trying to learn 10 passes, 20 controls, 10 palms, and 10 forces... but ONE double lift.

Personally, I actually use consistently 2 passes (Classic and Riffle), 4 controls (Hindu, In-Jog, Overhand, Protrude), 2 forces (Classic and my own), and 4 double lifts (Push-Off, Thumb Count, Pinky Break, and Strike). These moves are second nature to me, just like any other sleight, I have and do put the time in daily to make sure I am at the top of my game.

I understand the the point trying to be made about consistency, and I'm consistently changing. Catch me if you can!

I do the quote on quote "blaine style push off double" and it looks very natural like a person turning a card over stud dealing style..the key thing is don't make it so obvious that your pivoting the bottom left corner of the card against the heal of your thumb..ofcourse practice it slow first then at speed I pivot it off my heel for a fraction of a second..then I display...another thing, to a laymen..it would seem extremlely hard to turn over two cards at once that way that's why it also adds to the illusion of it being a single card..in a laymens eyes it would be more believable to turn over two cards together using a strike dl..compared to using a push off stud style dl...ask any laymen to try to turn over 2 cards at once and watch what they will do....just to add I must have done a million push off doubles in my life and never once have I got caught or questioned.."why do you turn over cards like that?"

Weapon is right. To me, it looks very nice and more convincing than the standard DL most people use.
Plus, spectators I have shown it too never ever thought this would be two cards, whereas other DLs are much more suspicious.
Also I think it looks great. Those who say it doesn`t are just killjoys.

You misunderstood the intent of my post. I wasn't advocating using only one kind of DL; I was saying that you shouldn't turn over a single card normally, and use a different method of turning over a double. The reason is exactly what you mentioned: when spectators see you turn over what they know is a single card using one method, and then see you doing something fancy or different, they know that something is up. I can't tell you the number of magicians I have seen with this shortcoming: I can always tell when they're doing a double lift, simply because it'd different than how they turn over a single card. The logic of this should be obvious.



Think about this for a moment: every one of the sleights you have mentioned are intended to be done in secret, out of the view of the spectator. In other words, if you do them correctly, no one is aware of them. On the other hand, a DL by its very nature is intended to be done openly, and with the intention of giving the spectator the impression that you are only turning over a single card. Therefore, it should resemble as closely as possible a single card being turned over.

I think you are grossly underestimating your spectators' intelligence. People do notice discrepant moves, even if they can't necessarily articulate exactly what they saw. My wife is a perfect example: she's not a magician by any means, but she can tell when someone is doing something "fishy." She'll often say, "I don't know exactly what you did, but you did something." And invariably, it will diminish the astonishment of the effect for her, an indication that I still have work to do.

If people think that you're doing something tricky, they won't feel that anything magical has taken place; they may be impressed with your digital dexterity, but they won't feel that something amazing has occurred; after all, if you "did something," then there's a logical explanation for what they saw, even if they don't know what it is.



I'm not sure I agree with this as an attitude for a magician to have, but I can tell you this: if you turn a single over one way and use a different technique to turn over a double, I guarantee you I will catch you, and I'm willing to bet your spectators will as well. I would be much more impressed if you could turn over a single and a double, and I couldn't tell which was which.

Mayve you weren't, but many others do. They were the ones I was refering to.



Of course it should. But what discrepencies are there when you're turning cards over differently, to an extent, everytime? I almost never turn over three cards in a row in the same manner, doesn't matter if they're doubles, triples or what.



Why would you think that? Of course I don't. Spectators make me nervous still. WHy would I imagine they can't, or won't figure out what may be going on? The simple answer is, I don't. That's why my card handling is always variable. I'm never committed to one method of accomplishing something.



Maybe you misunderstood me. I was talking to magicians about my approach to handling a given situation.

Man, you really made me work with all this quoting stuff.

Lemme tell you this. I have, since learning DL's, never been fooled by another one. Say what you want bro, but it's just not gonna happen. Even Ashers Diving Board Double, looked great. But the first thing I said to the person that showed it to me was, "did it take you longer to learn that doulbe than any other you know?" I don't think it's necessary by any means to need to flip the cards like that for a spec. That's a magicians DL to show skill as far as I'm concerned. If you can't convince someone with a simple push-off, I don't know if there is a convincing double.

A lot of magicians who are against the push off DL are magicians who cant do it..or cant do it correct =o)

I just checked out Gregory Wilson's double take. It's got lots of great stuff.. his push off method looks nice and strike double is nice and soooooo easy to learn.. ^^

Before I did magic I turned over single cards like David Blaines does DL. So to me his DL looks "normal".

Second deal.

Why would anyone want to duplicate the Blaine double anyway?

It is tough to do without a camera to get your hand out of frame anyway. There are LOTS of better lifts to say the least.

Worst of all that "bending the card" thing flexing it to show it is one card I guess, looks stupid. who shows a card like that? nobody I can think of. pushing and bending it against your left palm, I mean it just looks goofy to me.

You took the words out of my mouth!

Bjørn

I agree. His double lift looks terrible - completely unnatural. It's almost as though he wants the audience member to be suspicious... that or he is trying to impress them with his card-handling. But nothing about him truly strikes me as "subtle" anyway.

Ahh, another magician bashing Blaine. Remember, our laconic Blaine fooled the heck out of his audiences. No question about that. granted, many of the people he performed for were, shall we say, not the brightest bulbs on the tree.