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walid ahumada
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Art Attack.
“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
funsway
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Quote:
appealing to specific self-reflective sentiment, that of catching oneself believing a thing we already know to be untrue.


I kinda like that -- at least the expansive thoughts that are prompted by this view of performance magic. Do spectators actually have an a piori judgement of "true vs untrue" about things in life, or do they just wallow in believing what someone else has said/taught? Does a feeling of awe and wonder (or dilemma) occur when the impossibility if obviated, or when the spectator acknowledges (catches oneself)teh conflict?

Just when does the magic happen?
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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Jonathan Townsend
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Quote:
On 2010-08-16 19:03, funsway wrote:...
Just when does the magic happen?


You know in the cartoons when a character runs off a cliff and keeps going... but then they stop... and they look down... and then they fall? That's the experience of magic as we offer it IMHO. Not the experience of the illusion IMHO but when they realize they were taken in and react to that in context. That's why I call it a con where the audience wins.

By counterexample consider the cartoon moment where one character paints an opening or door on a wall and then walks through it. That's a wink at you, the audience to remind you that physics in cartoons is not the same as in life. In some cartoons we get a second character who tries the same but finds only a painted wall - as surrogate for the audience. Again - this just my model for what's happening and if you've got a better one I'm open to exploring that too.
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funsway
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No -- those are fine. I am just pondering on the many effects in which the performer rushes onto the next trick or phase without allowing the spectator to appreciate the "realization." Too many effects are described as having the moment of magic defined by the magician or looking for the shocked response. Perhasp the "artisitic" part is the subtle delays that allows time for questioning but not to think too deeply.

I just thought of another possible analogy. We see to hesitant lovers kiss -- their lips meet, then a beat later she "melts" into the embrace. The real kiss is not the meeting of lips but the submission to the emotional bond.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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walid ahumada
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“Magic becomes art when it has nothing to hide.” BEN OKRI quote
Brad Burt
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I agree that there was nothing "magic" in the performance, but there certainly was something 'magical'. I also agree that it can be a mistake to conflate what is magical with what we attempt to do with 'magic'.

But, I also agree, I think, with Lawrence O that finding what is 'magical' in another type of performance can offer insight into making our magic more powerful. I am almost certain that this what Jeff McBride for instance has worked at for years and years. Logically that doesn't make it right, but for some it's certainly useful.

Best regards,

Brad Burt


Definition of "magical" from Dictionary.com

mag·i·cal
   /ˈmædʒɪkəl/ Show Spelled[maj-i-kuhl] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
produced by or as if by magic: The change in the appearance of the room was magical.
2.
mysteriously enchanting: a magical night.
3.
of or pertaining to magic.
Use magical in a Sentence
Brad Burt
Michael Kamen
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I magical, you magical, he, she, or it magical.
Michael Kamen
Lawrence O
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I liked Jonathan's comments on this (an loved his cartoons cliff falling characters metaphor).

What's magic in this video and makes it different from pyramidizing awfully cute puppies, is the impossibility to throw sand on a board and make it stick to tell a story. As such it is very magical for it reveals the inner feelings and thoughts of the performer along an evolving story, without any possible explanation as to the means. Now the performance is not about the lady painting, it's about what she feels that transcribes into her invisible character revealed by the morphing of the sand on the board.

After due consideration, it seems really magic to me.

Brad's dictionary's definitions are too poor to help our analysis there but the ingredients as we, by now, can identify for something magic (in our sense of the word) are
an impossible cause to effect relationship
a flawless delivery of proof (but "flawless" has to be faked for the demonstration is actually flawed) along the story told
a putting on stage of the story
a final dilemma.

It seems to me that all these ingredients are there, well designed and perfectly orchestrated in the submitted video.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
tommy
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Well in it nothing quite really moves mysteriously form one place or condition to another but it does come pretty close and I like it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
Brad Burt
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Watch the video again. When I first saw it I thought she was working on a clear board or screen set up vertically. But, she's working on a clear screen set flat in front of her and it's being projected on a screen so that it can be seen, etc.

Doesn't take away how 'magical' it was for me, but it might modify how one views the 'magic' of what she is doing.

I was amazed and frankly enthralled by the emotion and poignant nature of her work. I have to admit that I would like even once in a awhile to produce the same with magic. It makes one appreciate the philosophy of Eugene Burger and others.

Best,
Brad Burt
Alan Wheeler
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Does anyone who enjoyed this display of sand design believe that "presentation is everything"--that personality and showmanship are 100% and that the beauty of the medium, the skill of the artist, and the tricks of the trade have nothing to do with the wonderful performance?

The "magic" (meaning "wonderful and inspiring quality" and NOT meaning "supernatural power" or "performance art and entertainment giving unexplainable experiences and illusions of the impossible") arises from a complex combination of factors including the artist, the message, the medium, and the audience.
The views and comments expressed on this post may be mere speculation and are not necessarily the opinions, values, or beliefs of Alan Wheeler.
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tommy
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Good question as I didn't notice the artist at all.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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There is not a day go by that I do not encounter "real magic" expressed by someone else. It doesn't matter if I consider it magic -- only to realize that every spectator will apply the term "magic" according to their personal experience and learning. In most of these "happenings" presntation is not the key factor. So, why should we as those who pretend at creating magic foucs on "presentation?" Tamariz shares that after we have mastered the Skelton and Flesh of an effect we must focus on Make-up and Clothing -- something more than just "presentation." Obviously, if you are concerned about the "mechanics" or "skill" factors you cannot be present for the audience and "presentation" will be blamed over sloppy preparation. Yet, being able to engage the audience and draw them into the effect is what separates the accomplished magician from the novice -- so, in the mind of the performer "presentation" is the unknown variable to be conquered.

I think it would be better to take time an discover what a potential spectator considers to be magic, to understand the balance of emotional and rational factors that create that "ah-ha" sense of introspection -- and then to figure out how to replicate that feeling with articifical means. Instead we rely on successful performers to tell us what they believe works and what does not based upon what people are willing to pay to see -- hardly a measure of magical accuity.

This leads us into be entertainers missing out on a majority of magical opportunities, and even worse, defining all other forms of magic experience as irrelevant. I foolishly feel that perforamnce magic should make one better prepared to appreciate magic when you see it -- and I would rather hear stories of the "real magic" you do between performances that hear of your latest new effect.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

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tommy
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Well in our art the character is part of the art work but what if the effect is so powerful it dwarfs the character to such an extent that the character is not noticed. Is it good? I personally can remember some great magic but not who performed it.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
funsway
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The character of an invisible magician, or one that phases in and out??

an intriguing idea, Tommy. Imagine a performer whose physical appearance changes during the performance -- physically affected by the power of the magic.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
funsway
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I would direct you to my comment of "real Magic" on another thread for Aug 20 ...

part way down the page, though the referenced YouTube link is worth a watch also

http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewt......start=60
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Brad Burt
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Just a side observation: Note the powerful affect of the music used in the piece.

Best,
Brad Burt
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