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M Sini Inner circle 1359 Posts 
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Quote:
Perhaps another reason why magicians aren't taken seriously. |
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MiketheMagicDude Loyal user CT 270 Posts
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Ok...is there a possibility in your narrow, one way street worlds....that two performers could share the same restaurant?
It is hard beating sense into a dead horse, but I am feeling ambitious tonight. |
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Maloney Special user Newfoundland, Canada 709 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-01 22:30, MiketheMagicDude wrote: I don't think any GM's would do it.
The Magic and Illusion of Jordan Maloney
"Experience the Unexplainable" www.jordanmaloney.com Go check it out! |
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MiketheMagicDude Loyal user CT 270 Posts
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On 2009-08-01 22:43, Maloney wrote: false. |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts
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This was some time back but I think Magic Island in Houston had more than one Magician working at a time and Illusions Restaurant in Indy did too, I believe or at least more than one Magician working during the week.
-=tab
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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MiketheMagicDude Loyal user CT 270 Posts
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I am not talking about a magician. I am talking about a performer.
no restaurant needs a magician; a balloon artist; a band; a dj; karaoke; tv's; radio; decorations; etc We are all the same...to provide entertainment for patrons...in attempt to bring in more customers and make them enjoy their visit/come back etc. It is self serving to think that doing magic is what allows you to perform in that restaurant. |
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NurseRob Elite user Dallas, TX 469 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-01 14:21, Zack Smith wrote: Let's look specifically at this same real life scenario then: The 1st performer IS GETTING THEIR OWN JOBS. Why is the 2nd performer who is belly aching over their percieved superiority over the talents of the first, that you would hold fast to the belief that by trying to steal the job, you are helping ALL of MAGIC in the endeavor. How arrogant to assume that the 1st performer is sub standard, they got the gig, now go find your own job somewhere else! and quit being a crybaby. AND I will chime in again on the part timer bandwagon too..I am a medical professional, I do magic for FREE, yes FREE...bwaaaa hhaaaaa haaa.. in the hospital ( I get paid plenty for being there anyway) I do a professional level performance for kids who have already paid too high a price for being there..Bobby Jones was one of the world's greatest golfers in history, never went PRO...SO my point is that Amateurs, and semi pro's can have as much if not more talent than the full timers. Just because you are a full timer, does not give you an authorative position over others. So please do not use that inflated, self gratifying argument ever again as a leverage in a debate on ethics...it is just lame dribble. Quote:
On 2009-08-01 20:56, RobertSmith wrote: I am going on record to say I highly resent this statement. Let me guess... Kids are scared of you and find you creepy? I'm right aren't I?? search your feelings, you know it to be true...admitting you have a problem is the first step to a cure.
Ut imago est animi voltus sic indices oculi ~
The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter ~Cicero |
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tabman Inner circle USA 5946 Posts
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On 2009-08-02 00:00, NurseRob wrote:...I do a professional level performance for kids who have already paid too high a price for being there. Good Magic is great for getting your head out of your troubles for a little while for both the performer and the audience. -=tab
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...
http://Sefalaljia.com |
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Zack Smith New user 37 Posts
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Rob,
Given what Skip said numerous times through out the post I do not think it is just someone being labeled as "sub standard". I also stated that I didn't know if I could ever do that... I do, however, agree with your philosophy about performing magic. Magic (like many things in life) should be about fun first, money second! Zack |
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lunatik Inner circle 3225 Posts
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How bout we all apply for all of mike's gigs. we'll seriously undercut and out perform him, and then let him wallow in sorrow at home. He's definitely willing to live and experience what he preaches! I think.......
"Don't let your Dreams become Fantasies"
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funsway Inner circle old things in new ways - new things in old ways 9987 Posts
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If I were still part owner of a restaurant, and if my research showed than my customers liked strolling entertainment, and if I had the ability to track customer retention and new customer draw against said entertainment -- then I would consider having a different performer each night of the week and hold regular auditions. This is not a 'hypothetical', just good business development practice. I would never hire any performer who would deamnd an exclusive contract any more than I would commit to serving a specific menu item forever.
All restaurant performers should remember that those people at the table are not YOUR customers. They are the customers of the business owner who allows you to be there, paid or not. You may have your own "moral convictions," but the "ethics" of the performance dynamics must be driven by the needs of that owner, not yours. Shifting to a hypothetical, if I (as an owner) was approached by a magician who said, "I see you have a great performer on Friday and Saturday nights, and he seems to be an asset to your business. Your customer mix on weekdays seems to have a higher percentage of children than on the week ends. That is my specialty. Would you consider having me come in a couple of weeknight? I also do balloons and some clown stuff if that turns out to be better," then I would never consider him to be unethical. Depending on my relationship with my regular magician I might mention my plans to him/her, and even invite him to help review the 'new guy'. In this my ethics would apply -- not the ethics of the performers. But that is not 'unrealistic' -- for I have done exactly that -- and learned that my customers prefered "no magician!"
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst
eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com |
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Mark Ennis Inner circle Raleigh, NC 1031 Posts
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On 2009-08-02 02:21, lunatik wrote: You seem to have the reading comprehension of a 7 year old child. Specifically one that has been held back at least one grade. Sorry, I am looking at this through the eyes of a restaurant owner and am still puzzled as to why so many magicians arrogantly think that because they start working at MY restaurant (yes, the one I, the restaurant owner owns) that the magician has any sort of say so as to whom else can work there or whom I can hire. You have no job security at my restaurant or any restaurant at all. Thanks for working for me and I will take care of you as the contract stipulates (you use contracts, right?) but if you don't provide the service you promised or if I simply feel like I want to make a change or for whatever reason I deem necessary, I will replace you with whomever I want and I don't need your blessing or say so. It doesn't make a bit of difference if I approached the new magician or if he came to me. If I feel like switching, that's what I might do. if you are doing what you are supposed to be doing, you probably have nothing to worry about. Also, anybody that thinks that another magician will come to the restaurant, bad mouth the current magician and get hired to replace him after undercutting has absolutely no concept about sales. Any vendor whose sales pitch consists of bad mouthing a vendor I currently use, will not get hired, ever. A good salesperson will tell you what service he can provide for you and not say a word about what service their current provider can't provide. Also, a good salesman has a price for his service that he will negotiate with the person making the decision and whatever the other magician is making will have no bearing. A poor and desperate salesman is the one that tries to land the deal by "If I am willing to do it for this much $$ can we do business?" I pay for quality - it's cheaper in the long run.
ME
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Dannydoyle Eternal Order 21242 Posts
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Well let me just ask this. Notice I have taken no position so it is a question for each side.
What if you lose a job to a person with a superior product with a better price?
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus <BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell |
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NurseRob Elite user Dallas, TX 469 Posts
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There will always be risks to the security of any job,The employer has ALL the power to choose, it's just that within the fraternity of self respecting magicians, one would not have to expect the killing blow would come from a brother..it's sad really that some think this is okay. I am not surprised at all, the world is chock full of self serving @55holz. It's just good buziness you say....yea right.
Ut imago est animi voltus sic indices oculi ~
The face is a picture of the mind as the eyes are its interpreter ~Cicero |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts
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Quote:
On 2009-08-02 12:37, NurseRob wrote: Do nurse's have this same sense of maternity? Quote:
funsway: All restaurant performers should remember that those people at the table are not YOUR customers. They are the customers of the business owner who allows you to be there, paid or not. You may have your own "moral convictions," but the "ethics" of the performance dynamics must be driven by the needs of that owner, not yours. The TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE!!!! Hopefully they listen to you cause they sure haven't heard me. Quote:
Maloney (re: multiple performers) Yes they would. In fact I was at a restaurant where they did just that. Quote:
funsway: Oh those darn hypotheticals. But the folks here say that'll never work. I personally say let the management decide. My goal was never to go out and deliberately "steal" a gig from another performer. (Though I head there's a restaurant or 2 in and around Dallas that has a magician) I just don't see why a restaurant can't have two magicians if they'd like. One doing tricks & balloons for kids on Wednesday, and another doing it for adults on Saturday? Considering this is supposed to be a brotherhood, those chanting "brotherhood" are pretty selfish about "THEIR" restaurants. Quote:
DannyDoyle: Well let me just ask this. Notice I have taken no position so it is a question for each side. Don't bother asking. I suggested the very thing to ChristopherLyle about 39 pages ago and he dismissed it as having "no merit." Go figure. Robert |
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SoCalPro Inner circle Southern California 1634 Posts
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Woooow!!! You guys are still going on this. I thought this dead horse would have been buried days ago. Notice how 2 of the original parties’ involved have backed out, good for them.
This is my final take on this. If you have a gig and some schmuck KNOWS you are and comes in and pitches it for a lower fee and get's it...that's not business...that's BS. Shame on that performer. I’m sure that if I walked into Roberts gig or Marks gig and took the gig from them because I charged less, you wouldn’t say..”Awww..he’s just taking care of his family.” They would be ticked as well, I am sure. If you are there and someone comes in and steals your gig and get's MORE, then while that sucks, you need to re evaluate the quality of the service you provide. Nurse Bob.... by you donating your talents in your hospital, you are doing a wonderful thing. Sometimes I'll donate times as well. The patients really appreciate you sharing your talents with then and so does the staff. It's very rewarding. Good for you!!! That's it...that is how I feel. I do not have the time, energy, interest in trying to convince ANYONE who thinks it's ok to "push you in front of a train to feed my family", to change their opinion. To each his own and what comes around....goes around. Best wishes for great success. |
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RobertSmith Veteran user 330 Posts
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socalpro: If you have a gig and some schmuck KNOWS you are and comes in and pitches it for a lower fee and get's it...that's not business...that's BS. Shame on that performer. I’m sure that if I walked into Roberts gig or Marks gig and took the gig from them because I charged less, you wouldn’t say..”Awww..he’s just taking care of his family.” They would be ticked as well, I am sure. Dannydoyle - see what I mean? What is the hang up with you guys that think every schmuck or vomit inducer walking into the restaurant is going to charge LESS? At least you acknowledge the MORE part - and now begin to see the bigger picture |
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Adam1975 Special user UK 900 Posts
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This could end up rivalling the Card Trick Game for pages and posts! Claim and counter claim...where will it end.................
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts
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On 2009-07-29 12:10, Skip Way wrote: Why worry about the other entertainers around you? Just do the best job you can possibly do at your gigs, and they will want to work with you. Leave the restaurants to her, and move on to bigger and better paying opportunites. Just my 2 cents, but I am not one to talk. It bugs me often, but I try and keep in in the back of my head so I can concentrate on more important projects. Charles |
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MiketheMagicDude Loyal user CT 270 Posts
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This is what my posts must look like on the computer screens of Jordan B, luntik, socalpro, et al.:
"I suggest undercutting and stealing. If that doesn't work steal and undercut. The best way to get a restaurant job is to find only restaurants that have a magician already and offer to work for less than them so you can steal their job." Until you folks on the away team actually read and attempt to comprehend what has actually been said in my posts, I guess it is not worth continuing the discussion. I suppose to people of your mental stature that means you win. Congrats. :) |
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Posted: Aug 2, 2009 01:50 am 
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