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Magnus Eisengrim
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Tom, can you think of anything that we have complete data for? Accuracy is important and it is annoying when compromises have been made. What alternative did they have? They merged data sets and unless there is some evidence to the contrary there is no reason to believe that there was any dishonesty involved.

And since you want "accurate and complete data" are you going to suggest that "The Admiral" provide that as well?

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On 2009-10-14 22:57, MagicSanta wrote:
Let's study tree sap to see if it spreads further in warmer weather! Then we can measure the spread in 1734 vs today and then multiple the difference in temp by, say 15000, and put out a press release expressing our concern for the polar ice cap and ask for money to do research!


Or, let's do nothing and assume that everything is the way it's supposed to be and sit around wondering why the excessive weather pattern changes have damaged our farmlands and the coastline is rapidly sinking underwater.
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
Tom Bartlett
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Attacking "The Admiral" and asking me if I can think of anything that we have complete data for, does nothing to support any thing you have said. Why aren’t you scrutinizing the sites you have posted with as much fervor, after all isn’t that the scientific method? You know double blind studies are to compensate for or eliminate the learned bias in all people including scientists.

My post have been to show that "global warming", "climate change" or what ever else you would like to call it, is been turned in to a political battle ground by both sides, leaving real science in the dust.

And as for doing nothing, it seems some people are ignoring the strides we are making in low emission autos, better insulated homes and more energy efficient everything else, the American consumer is demanding and buying. I wish the same thing could be said for the rest of the world.

If one is going to talk about farm land being laid to waste. They need to look at the radical environmentalist stopping the irrigation of thousands of acres in California. Only because of some tiny fish, farmers can no longer use water from irrigation supply sources to produce food and jobs for this country and around the world. In addition to wasting the farm land, thousands of jobs are being lost and generations of farmers are going out of business.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Magnus Eisengrim
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If you have a specific concern about something I've posted, I'll look at it. If I find fault in what I've referenced, I'll agree with you. If I don't, I'll explain why I don't.

I'm not interested in a spitting contest. But I do care about honesty and accuracy.

As for environmental politics, I agree that it is an interesting issue, but I maintain that the integrity of the science is not critiqued by looking at dubious political activity.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-10-18 16:32, Tom Bartlett wrote:

My post have been to show that "global warming", "climate change" or what ever else you would like to call it, is been turned in to a political battle ground by both sides, leaving real science in the dust.

Where have you done that? Your posts have only shown (ironically) the extent to which certain forces allied against science (e.g., "The Admiral") have gone to spin their case by misrepresenting facts.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-10-18 16:32, Tom Bartlett wrote:

If one is going to talk about farm land being laid to waste. They need to look at the radical environmentalist stopping the irrigation of thousands of acres in California. Only because of some tiny fish, farmers can no longer use water from irrigation supply sources to produce food and jobs for this country and around the world. In addition to wasting the farm land, thousands of jobs are being lost and generations of farmers are going out of business.

It's hardly all because of radical environmentalists and some tiny fish.

There is also a big drought (3 years and counting) to blame. And the recession. Even without the water cutbacks, many of those farmers were going to fail anyway. Farms elsewhere in the state of California that are unaffected by the "tiny fish" are also failing in large numbers.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0......,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us/22mendota.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-10-18 17:18, balducci wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-18 16:32, Tom Bartlett wrote:

If one is going to talk about farm land being laid to waste. They need to look at the radical environmentalist stopping the irrigation of thousands of acres in California. Only because of some tiny fish, farmers can no longer use water from irrigation supply sources to produce food and jobs for this country and around the world. In addition to wasting the farm land, thousands of jobs are being lost and generations of farmers are going out of business.

It's hardly all because of radical environmentalists and some tiny fish.

There is also a big drought (3 years and counting) to blame. And the recession. Even without the water cutbacks, many of those farmers were going to fail anyway. Farms elsewhere in the state of California that are unaffected by the "tiny fish" are also failing in large numbers.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0......,00.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/22/us/22mendota.html
Go back and read your link http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0......,00.html It supports what I said!

Quote:

"The area is in trouble because its water is piped in from the beleaguered Sacramento-San Joaquin River Delta. Last August, a Federal court set limits on pumping from the Delta, in an attempt to help endangered smelt fish. In a further measure to protect smelt, the U.S. Bureau of Reclamation announced just last week it would cut San Joaquin Valley farm water supplies to 40% of the contracted amount. Many of the farmers in the region have been allotted only one sixth of the water supply they need to sustain their crops through the crucial summer months. "This is a death sentence," says almond and wine farmer Shawn Coburn."
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
MagicSanta
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I'd reconsider the usage of 'were going to fail anyway'.

As for California the state is, for the most part, almost desert with great soil. They have never had enough rain and they don't have the water to support the population, manufacturing (which is a write off anyway since the state is driving them out), and agriculture. I wouldn't say they are in a 'big drought' because the press loves droughts and they still refer to it as a potential drought on the bay area news stations. They will have to wait a few months before the rainy season to know the score.

Knowing this the question is why is it that there are groups effectively STOPPING California from making more man made lakes for water? Why is there an active effort to take down current dams thus REDUCING the amount of available water? Why does the state, when water is at critical levels, empty lakes (I can't spell resrevior) for 'repairs'? Why did the enviros, with the backing of the idiots who run the state, put a chemical in the gas which was clearly going to ruin a lot of undground water supplies put in anyway only to.....tada....ruin the underground water so not many wells cannot be used? California, and I'm not talking about Arnold who is handcuffed, run by idiots and inhabited by a great many more who wish to destroy the place.

Did you know that the waste water filteration is so effective that they have to muck up the water prior to releasing it to the bay because it is too clean? I know it would cost money but if there are no microbs that are a hazard use it for watering lawns etc. Pump it up into the hills and release it into dry creeks so it can be absorbed by plants, drank by critters, and provide deeper water for the fishies and then get into the bay good and mucked up with fishy poop? Hey, they wanted to pipe, over the ocean bottom, water from the Columbia River in Washington. Why didn't they? California wanted the water from several miles UP the river while Washinton said that would damage fishing grounds and the water was the same at the mouth and easier and cheaper to suck into the pipe line, California refused.
balducci
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Read all of what I posted, Tom, don't pick and choose.

What you cut and pasted was from 2008. The next article from early 2009 makes it clear that even many farmers who are not exposed to the cut backs are suffering and failing.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
balducci
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Quote:
On 2009-10-18 17:49, MagicSanta wrote:

I'd reconsider the usage of 'were going to fail anyway'.

Well, why? I prefaced the phrase with "many of". Not all.

Many farmers elsewhere in the state are failing.

Heck, farms ALL ACROSS NORTH AMERICA are failing due to economic reasons alone.

So why would I expect this group of farmers in California to be any different from the rest?

If I am wrong on that, do let me know why.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
Tom Bartlett
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The scientist are using the same flawed data to conduct their environmental studies so even if they are pier reviewed, the conclusions are still, flawed.

If all this global warming is happening, why aren’t the scientists coming up with ways to attack the parasite without killing the host first. It is impossible to save the planet for a next generation, if you kill off the one that exist now.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Jonathan Townsend
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Faster, faster! Let's get some righteousness going here!

More frenzy sheeple. You have to get into enough of a frenzy that you will accept much higher taxes, fewer services and be ready to turn on anyone who disagrees.

In the long term the earth is in fact cooling and the meek (both roaches and rats) will inherit the world provided we don't get too clever with genetics - in which case it goes to the sulfer based bacteria again as before.

In the mean time - get with the program and bleat! Never mind that all the hot air and empty promisses are just adding to the problem Smile

*I posted some cogent analysis on this topic and some salient questions about how far one might go to enforce any such climate based strategic goals using nuclear weapons some time ago. After that it's all hot air for folks and playtime for me till we get back to actual economics and moral boundaries.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
MagicSanta
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I just feel for the family farms. I doubt many exist anymore in the valley though, most are corporate farms who hope to take over the lil' family farms. I recall in Oregon they stopped farmers from getting water and put them out of business intentionally.
Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-10-18 18:39, Jonathan Townsend wrote:
Faster, faster! Let's get some righteousness going here!

More frenzy sheeple. You have to get into enough of a frenzy that you will accept much higher taxes, fewer services and be ready to turn on anyone who disagrees.

In the long term the earth is in fact cooling and the meek (both roaches and rats) will inherit the world provided we don't get too clever with genetics - in which case it goes to the sulfer based bacteria again as before.

In the mean time - get with the program and bleat! Never mind that all the hot air and empty promisses are just adding to the problem Smile

*I posted some cogent analysis on this topic and some salient questions about how far one might go to enforce any such climate based strategic goals using nuclear weapons some time ago. After that it's all hot air for folks and playtime for me till we get back to actual economics and moral boundaries.
You tell hem Jonathan!
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
Slim King
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Five years ago .... And NOTHING has changed!!!!!
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
ed rhodes
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Quote:
On Aug 4, 2009, Tom Bartlett wrote:
I’m glade you took the time to read all the links I provide and came to your own conclusion.

For me it clearly shows that Co2 did not have anything to do with global warming in the past and is not likely the cause of it now.


Which means you believe THIS paper as opposed to papers that disagree with it.
"All the world's a stage, but the play is badly cast!" - Oscar Wilde
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