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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » Why are the vast majority of cups spun rather than CNC machined? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Bill Palmer
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Delrin® is a form of acetal resin. It is an industrial plastic that is very tough. There are two basic grades: industrial grade and medical grade. The medical grade is available in many different colors. Industrial grade is available in black and white only.

One of the uses of Delrin® is in harpsichord plectra. Delrin® lasts longer than goose quills and is easier to shape. It has also been used for guitar picks. I used a Delrin® pick during the early 1970's when I was playing tenor banjo. It was great for certain things, but when you started playing fast, it had a tendency to deform slightly. It would bend back on the downstroke and forward on the upstroke, so there was a slight disconnect in rhythm. A heavy acetate pick doesn't do that.

That was probably more than you wanted to know.

Posted: Aug 19, 2009 6:39pm
There is another method of forming cups that you don't hear many people speak of. This is hydroforming. The cup is formed inside a two- or three- part form using hydraulic pressure. It can be much cheaper than spinning, but it does require that you make a long run of items before you reach the breakover point.

You also could use die casting, but it might not provide a strong cup. I think that would be completely dependent on the alloy used.
"The Swatter"

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tabman
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Quote:
On 2009-08-19 18:32, Bill Palmer wrote:
Delrin® is a form of acetal resin. It is an industrial plastic that is very tough.


Thanks Bill. Always rather know more than less. So its nothing like Bakelite??

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Mobius303
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Hey Bill ,
Has anyone ever used something like a 100 ton press to press out cups?
We used to make parts that were cup shaped on a 100 and 200 ton press and it was very fast. The metal was then sent to be painted in the paint department and then used on various parts of the products we made.
The Dye could be made that has the bead too I was told. Not the bottom rolled bead but enough material could be left so that a spinner could roll that with no problem.
I am just curious if that was ever done in the past. Seems like it would be cheap and easy to mass produce cups.

Thanks,
Mobius
Bill Palmer
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Tabby:

Delrin has a bit more spring than bakelite and is not brittle at all.

Mike:

I think some of the early Mysto, Adams and Sherms metal cups were either hydroformed or simply drawn via a press. Some of the Reilly cups look like they may have been made that way. Before I had the first sets of souvenir cups made for the museum, I looked into getting a run of cups made that way. The only thing was that the place I contacted preferred to use aluminum instead of copper, and I would have had to purchase a BUNCH of them in order to get the price into a reasonable range.

I couldn't see buying 333 sets of cups. And one left over, of course. Minimum run was 1000 pieces.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
tabman
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Thank you Bill.

-=tab
...Your professional woodworking and "tender" loving care in the products you make, make the wait worthwhile. Thanks for all you do...

http://Sefalaljia.com
Bill Palmer
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You are more than welcome.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
cupsandballsmagic
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A while back I as in negotiation to buy a used pick which was (supossedly) owned by SRV. That was Delrin. So I guess some guitar pick also were made of Delrin. Bill would know more about this than I do though.

Rene Martinez (SRV's guitar tech) once asked SRV what "that stuff" on his pick guard was? Stevie said it was "butter"

That was what Stevie called that residue of melted pick that landed on his guard from fanning when he played. He had actually melted the pick while playing and it had hit the pick guard and fused onto it.

Not sure if a Delrin pick would do that but I am pretty sure most regulat ones would.

Regarding a 100 tonne press, is it true that this is how expanded shells are made by first hitting them in this before machining? I heard it somewhere but I always wondered if it was actually "squashed."

Bri
Dave V
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Delrin pics are highly popular. Maybe not for Bill, but for thousands of others. That deforming that Bill talks of is one of their "features." After playing a while they take a "set" and seem to conform slightly to the shape of your fingers. Their "Tortex" line of textured Delrin pics are some of my all time favorites.
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rikbrooks
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It looks like Jim Riser was using wooden chucks?
Bill Palmer
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The thing about flattening coins with a press to expand them may be true. It was not the way the better ones were made, though.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
cupsandballsmagic
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Thanks Bill Smile
Bill Palmer
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"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
cupsandballsmagic
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Wow! Thanks Bill. That's fascinating reading. It also puts it into perspective. I paid £28 for my Sun & Moon set that's NOTHING considering the amount of work it will have taken to produce.
Bri
Bill Palmer
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I had a friend back in the 1960's and 1970's who made these things. He also them non-expanded. One of his specialties was the old Mexican 1 peso that had the engraved edges. The coins were worth about 9 cents apiece and were very common.

My dad went to Mexico City one summer, visited a magic shop, and came back with two sets of these for me. I looked at them and we both had a laugh when I told him that they were made just a few blocks from where he lived!
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
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