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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Ellusionst - CC2 better than Daryl's AmbitiousCard ? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Otis Day
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I think you missed mine too.
Nash
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jacksorbetter

How is it that putting in a bunch of tricks from other magicians while not crediting properly and CHANGING the name of the trick all-together doesn't sound immoral to you?

He is using other people's idea to make money while not getting permission (though, that's only what I HEARD... maybe he did?? As I am not in any inner circle of magic
Smile )

Let's say you invented a trick. You put it on the market. Well, then all of a sudden Brad stole your trick, put it in his latest tape, and make money out of it while not giving credit to you, nor get any permission from you.

What would you think? YOU GOT RIPPED OFF THAT IS.

Look man, I have no problem with Ellusionist AS LONG AS HE GIVES PROPER CREDIT to the originator.

If you don't know what I"m talking about
watch what Michael Ammer is doing in his easy to master card mircale series. That's how magic should be done.

For now I'm out. Have a great day fellas.

Smile Smile Smile Smile Smile
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

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Fletch
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Daryl's video is good, but it left out the best part of the effect:where the card is given a crimp and placed in the the deck and pops up to the top.

I think Daryl did this video just to push his Ultimate Ambition effect.

Doc Eason teaches it on his L&L video. It makes the whole rouine worth doing.
Riceboi
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Quote:
Daryl's video is good, but it left out the best part of the effect:where the card is given a crimp and placed in the the deck and pops up to the top.


On the DVD version I have he includes it on there.
marko
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I have the VHS version and it is on there, too.

Doc Eason does an awesome version. But it's mostly because of his energy and personality which few magicians could match (he uses standard moves and phases). Tommy Wonder has the best I've ever seen. Smooth and mystifying.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
iamslow
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Just a question, does Doc Eason credit the creator of the pop up move in his video?? Smile
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
MichalMystic
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I’ve been outspoken about Brad and his company and still stick to that. And the way Brad does Business and his team handle problems like email, preaching when they don’t know for 100% they're correct (I can show you the email they wrote back correcting themselves).
I’m also surprised every single one of you that have not liked Brad and are a part of his forums aren’t banned yet as this happened to me.

I made post on a forum not of their own and was told that comments made on another forum they didn’t like and banned me from their forums.

Now as some else said Brad if your reading this LISTEN CLOSELY. Once you put yourself out in the public eye of magicians your automatically asking for an evaluation of your magic and credibility. Not everyone is going to love you.
Now unlike a lot of posts made all over the net my post wasn’t like Brad sucks, he's crap. They were well thought out posts.

I think actions like this from his team and the way his company hasn’t released one original routine or effect reflect why a lot of why magicians think they way we do.

Like come on, an invisible deck for 17/18 bucks. It's not a joke they did it!

Now I personally have seen all the videos released from Brad including CC2, and to be honest it the best thing he did to date (if that means anything).
Personally I hate ambitious routines I think there way over done and last too long.
The content in CC2 is good as is the quality of the video and the instructions are fine.
Now would I buy it if I was a guy just getting into magic? No as I'd invest my money, in books or other videos as all the controls (as that’s what most are controlling the card to the top by what ever means) can be learn in a lot of other sources.

My biggest problem is that guy will think these moves should only be used for that type of routine since that what it is taught for.

Ahh well that's enough of my rambling. I hope some of what I just spat out made some sense.
Clarence
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One of the biggest problems that Ellusionist is facing now is that the forums are cropped up with a lot of amateurs and wannabes who don't know anything about magic.

They are lousy magicians but somehow in their mind, they always think they are good. It's hard for them to improve if they have that same mentality.

That's the problem with Ellusionist that somehow irritates me.

No point arguing with idiots. They beat you with experience.

The people there don't talk with sense. The only people who i still respect there is JWB811, Proximo and ect... Nobody else there gives good advice anymore. Most of them have basically disappeared.

The people don't take good and honest advice. They are not as open-minded as in other magic forums. That's one bad point of the people there at Ellusionist.

The forums have degraded in quality since when I was a member there from the start. If this continues, sooner or later the Ellusionist forums will be dead.

Many people who give good advice are gone and now people in Ellusionist just post messages based on jealousy, ego and pride.

When you give advice to an amateur, he will feel insulted because you say his skills suck. That's the truth. If he doesn't want to take the advice, how is he going to improve?

I'm seriously sick of helping people in Ellusionist now. The amateurs don't appreciate it. I would rather spent my time here in future. Smile
Bone
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Smile Finally I'm confused.
Folks, One more question for who owns CC2: Does that includes Ultimate Ambition ?

Bone. Smile
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AlexWong
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Hmmm... I doubt he can include that in his video.... if it does.... <grin>... then I think he just put himself up for more bashing....
Clarence
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I own Daryl's Ambitious card video DVD a long time ago.

Daryl is the only one who can make a video including Ultimate Ambition.

LOL! If Brad was to do that, he would lose a lot of respect. Smile
iamslow
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Why do all the Ellusionist supporters think CC2 has more moves than daryl's? mabee they never watched daryls vid?
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
Bone
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CC2 original review:

Quote:
"Warning: What you will NOT see in this video...
- ONLY ONE performance in a studio setting for friends of the producer
- Move after move - after move... taught rapid style - end of video
- So many sleights and moves you don't know which way to go
- "A teacher-dude in a room with a cam and a tripod"


Don't you think Brad points out Daryl's and L&L's works ?

Bone.

Smile

Original review of CC2:

Quote:
What you WILL see in this video...

- Multiple performances on the streets
- Multiple talks on the vital aspects of magic and routining
- The most effective methods to TEACH better: voice-overs, slow motion, multiple angle shots
- A preview that will show you the quality involved
- An iron clad money back guarantee if you don't like the video
- A full support system and PROTECTED discussion forum for the material
- An on-call support staff of experts ready to answer ANY question you have
- packed with all the tools you need to transform ordinary card tricks into something electrifying


And Brad wrote this is to prove that CC2 is stronger than Daryl's AC.

I think this point he was right. Talking about video quality, slow motion, teach slow, camera editor, easy to learn in minutes... Of course those are strong points of Ellusionist. I agree Brad teaching is better, slower, and in details. This allows watcher to immitate 100% what Brad does and to be a "Brad" on the Live performance, this point it is totally diffirent from Daryl's.

Daryl's teaching is for the watcher to have more info, by that they can think of ways to have their own routines.

One more point, CC2 can be better because the price is half higher than Daryl's DVD.
What yo think ?

Truly,
Bone. Smile

Quote:
On 2003-06-08 23:13, youareslow wrote:
Why do all the Ellusionist supporters think CC2 has more moves than daryl's? mabee they never watched daryls vid?

Hi youareslow,

This is pretty easy to understand, because people think Daryl's teaching is a lot of moves which takes years to learn all, boring and hard.

Ellusionist (How to do street magic of David Blaine) and Daryl is not a "Streeter" and of course not David blaine, DVD has only one performance, all about several move teachings. Because it's almost impossible for Daryl to immitate Blaine, that's why.

And people die with CC2 reviewer and Camera editor. And this is the most important, I think. It's like this Smile

Anyways, Daryl is my magician.

Bone. Smile
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kid iowa
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I like CC2 a lot more than Daryl's video. The main reason (and only reason) is the production value. For some reason anything put out by LL Pub gives me the hives. Seeing the same people in the audience clapping and gasping like circus seals just turns me off. If I see David's mouth drop open in "suprise" or his eyes bug out I'm going to scream. On another small point, Daryl's routine is just way too long for me. It seems to be more of a collection of moves than it does a show of magic. I think the card should rise 3, or 4 times tops. After that it turns more into a "try and catch me" routine.
Now granted, a lot of people bust on ellusionist because of the crediting problem and the business aspect. But isn't everyone out to make money? Daryl does, Ammar does, and Brad does. No big whoop, I like the ellusionist products so I'll continue to buy from Brad, I don't like A1 or LL Pub so I don't buy their stuff. Again, its all on what the consumer wants and expects. They buy what they like. And with the crediting (first I'd like to give a shout out to whoever invented cards), that really doesn't bother me. Sure, its nice to know who did what, and give a nod at them for what they gave to the art, but if a guy mispronounces a name or didn't give credit to the right person...no big deal in my book. People mispronounce my name, I have yet to see someone give credit to the inventor of the playing card/inventor of gaffed cards etc, but screw up once and people are at your jugular. So overall, if you like a good quality produced DVD/video, I say go for CC2. It doesn't have as many moves as Daryl's, but I feel that the production and quality of it surpases it by a mile.
Jim <-----awaiting the pot shots
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Chris Boyd
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Quote:
On 2003-06-09 07:40, kid iowa wrote:
On another small point, Daryl's routine is just way too long for me. It seems to be more of a collection of moves than it does a show of magic. I think the card should rise 3, or 4 times tops. After that it turns more into a "try and catch me" routine.


So pick the best 3 or 4 moves from Daryl's routine. No one ever said you had to use all of them.

As for the production value being a factor...? I'll tell you what. If I had to do a report on astronomy, and I could only choose one video from which to base my report, a high school filmstrip on "The Stars" or Armageddon with Ben Affleck, I think I'd choose the filmstrip.

Quote:
On 2003-06-09 07:40, kid iowa wrote:
Now granted, a lot of people bust on ellusionist because of the crediting problem and the business aspect. But isn't everyone out to make money?


PERMISSION. This has VERY little to do with crediting. He has no PERMISSION from the creators to teach their magic. Big difference.

http://geniimagazine.com/forum/cgi-bin/u......0392;p=1

Skim through this. When you get to Brad's posts on page two, let me know what you think then.
Chris Boyd
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Tor Egil
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I don't have Daryls so I cant compare. Im sure its a wonderful video. I have CC2. Why? Because I thought it looked good and I just hate waiting for the video to araive in the mail. I liked CC2. It teaches you a lot of moves and presentation. The cool part about it is the voice overs. Daryl's video includes mainly table top effects, many which can't be performed standing up.Brad's version however, you can perform everything you see standing up.

Adding a mixture of both into your routine, with the many sleights taught on each, you will have a deadly combination.

As for the Genii thing, that is just too funny.
miracle
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Re the "Genii Thing", yeah Chris, I still remember how Brad called up his followers to fight for him .... ha ... just too funny ;-D
HiveMind
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Quote:
On 2003-06-09 08:20, Chris Boyd wrote:

PERMISSION. This has VERY little to do with crediting. He has no PERMISSION from the creators to teach their magic. Big difference.


He has to have permission to teach Ambitious
Card? Most of the effects Brad teaches are
really old, its not like hes teaching a Sankey effect. I think the crediting would be
the only viable issue, he messed up alot
early on, he still hasnt fixed it in an acceptable manner for some people... I can understand that point... but permission? If
there are some effects I'm not considering
that are newer then by all means correct me
but I cant think of any. Besides that do you
know how many books and videos that are made
that do this, and no one ever asks if they
asked permission. This seems more like a personal vendetta than a real reason.

Some people have some acceptable reasons for not liking Ellusionist, but some reasons are really stretching for integrity.
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
Chris Boyd
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I never said he needed to obtain permission to teach an Ambitious Card Routine. If he were teaching an exact routine move for move, such as Daryl's FISM routine, then I would have a problem with it.

What I have a problem with, and will continue to have a problem with, is his teaching things like Roy Walton's "Card Warp", Stephen Schutzer's "Self-Folding Bill", among many others, without permission.

What really hurts my feelings are Brad's and other people's opinions that not having permission is not necessary and is not stealing. Stealing is stealing, people. Don't use the old "But this stuff has been around forever" BS. At least make an effort.
Chris Boyd
"Jaws dropping is the sweetest sound..."
Tor Egil
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I can see where you are coming from, but how do you know he doesn't have permission?
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