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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Ellusionst - CC2 better than Daryl's AmbitiousCard ? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Fletch
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I think the reason he doesn't get sued is that he doesn't need permission. From an ethical point of view he might, but you can't copywrite a magic effect.

Daryl used his video to push his poor Ultimate Ambition effect. The effect is dull. It doesn't come close to the pop up move (which he doesn't teach.) Stick with Doc Eason's video to learn it.
marko
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Once again, Daryl DOES teach the pop-up move on his video (AND he credits it). The Ultimate Ambition is included because 1)it's part of the FISM routine and 2)it's an ingenious idea. Daryl was NOT marketing the gimmick at the time of the video's release. He gives you full permission to make your own (which I did). The only thing Daryl was 'pushing' was excellent explanations of many sleights and phases for use with the Ambitious Card routine. Hi Fletch, and welcome to the Café.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
iamslow
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Daryls dvd teaches 40 moves and phases. The ellusionist teaches less, but with better explaination. Quantity or Quality? Only you, the consumer can decide which is best for YOU! Smile Smile which tastes better the one on the left or the right?? Smile
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
MichalMystic
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At the time of my earlier post I was in the midst of watching this video.
Now After seeing the whole thing I have to really say this is his best work out.Now is that a compiment Im not sure as even in the midle intro parts where he performs a little slieght there just Horrible.

Look at the Fan part where he does a classic move of making half the deck vanish while waving a fan of cards in the other hand.

Instead of telling you all the things i didn't like Ill tell you what I did like.

I like how thru the whole video he encourages you to come up with your own routines and patter(even though his suggestion for patter were far from having any type of imagination).

He did go over each moves slowly and the camera angle were real nice.

The video quality was very good also.

To me the funny thing is on his own video he gets busted for doing a double lift!
Hahaha that has to tell you something right there.

Now it may sound like I didn't like this video but in fact I did like it and it the first thing from Brad I have liked.

Now on the subject of Daryls vid I get it over this one but Daryl to me is very very boring.
submagi
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He got busted on his double lift? Has he heard of the word "edit"?
Christopher Lim
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submagi, I presume that he left that part in to show the "student" how to handle such a situation if the need did come up. The voice-overs tell you exactly what he is thinking at that point, and how he is going to handle it.
Chris Lim
Joshua Lozoff
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I think that leaving the Double Lift bust on the tape is brilliant, and something other magicians should consider when making instructional tapes that include performances.

Christopher, I'll bet he left it on there for that exact reason. He chose to educate his students over saving his own ego. Great lesson.

That alone makes me interested in the tape.
Joshua Lozoff

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Chris Boyd
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Quote:
On 2003-06-09 19:40, Tor Egil wrote:
I can see where you are coming from, but how do you know he doesn't have permission?


Because I have emailed him with this question and received no response, whereas during my ellusionist months, I received responses to my queries on more than one occasion.

Did you not read the Genii thread? He completely dodges the question because he knows that he cannot answer it truthfully without incriminating himself.
Chris Boyd
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marko
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Quote:
I think that leaving the Double Lift bust on the tape is brilliant, and something other magicians should consider when making instructional tapes that include performances.


LOL, hopefully the person making the tape would be good enough NOT to get busted on it in the first place. That's what practice is for.


Quote:
Christopher, I'll bet he left it on there for that exact reason. He chose to educate his students over saving his own ego. Great lesson.

That alone makes me interested in the tape.


I hope guys like Sankey and Daryl take this advice and start purposely messing up their tricks so they can sell more videos. You gotta give the people what they want.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
MichalMystic
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The Voice over super easy to do after the fact.Saying he left it there to teach his students to me just a easy way of saying he messed up.But on the other hand after some thought the point is valid as it is a good teaching tool that even if you might slip up act like nothing happend and keep going!

Did I mention he credits houdini with the erdanase color change!lol
jacksorbetter
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uuuh...according to card college houdini did invent the erdnase color change.

Giobbi mentions that many people mistakenly credt Erdnase since he wrote an extensive description, but the move was creatred by Houdini. (if memory serves anyway).
marko
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I've heard it called both the Houdini Color Change and the Erdnase Color Change, but have never been quite sure of its origin. Can anyone here clarify?
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
MichalMystic
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Hmm yeah Id like to know also.
HiveMind
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according to Lybrary.com Houdini is listed.
Also publication is listed as "The Magicians Handbook", P. T. Selbit, 1901, "The Expert at the Card Table", S. W. Erdnase, 1902.

I must note that although I ocasionally use
this site out of curiousity, I wouldn't quote it as a source. Generally I have no reason not to believe it, and the site is very interesting.

Of the people who have seen CC2 maybe you can
answer this question: Brad teaches the push-off double lift on this video. I am told he talks about it for 20 minutes or something. Alot of sources 1) can you tell me which version he teaches (does he push from the extreme corner as in Expert Card Technique or does the thumb go about 1/3 away from the corner or something like that?) 2) does he use the push-off double in his performance, or is he always using easy lifts. And if he is using the push-off, is this the one he gets caught on?
"Free will is an illusion." - B.F. Skinner
Jake Ellison
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I'm new to magic, and have been reading posts on the magic Café for a few months now...and have learned a lot from all of you. I've never posted a message before because I don't really consider myself a true magician just yet. For example, I still struggle with a lot of the stuff on Ammar's ETM Card Series. However, I do want to put my two cents in with regard to CC2.

I do know enough to know that Brad needs to make a better effort at giving proper credit for certain sleights and effects. Putting that aside though, I think some Ellusionist products, such as CC2, provide an invaluable service for amateurs such as myself. A lot of you bash Brad for copying Blaine's style. Yet, I will tell you that a lot of laymen LOVE that approach--they want to feel like they're watching someone with true magical powers...even when they know it's just a trick.

Specifically, soldiers love this approach. They could care less about guys like Burton or Copperfield, but they love Blaine. I'm an Army officer, and my troops are always asking me to show them some new bit of magic. Mind you, I don't copy Blaine's patter, or his physical or facial gestures...but my style is similar...and people love it. Isn't that what magic is supposed to be all about?

I vary my style obviously, and will present the same type of trick in a much different fashion if I'm performing it for kids, or civilians, etc...but I promise all of you that soldiers love the Blaine style of magic.

I don't have Daryl's video but am sure it probably has more sleights. For me though, CC2 has enough material on it to keep me busy learning and practicing for months. Brad may not give proper credit all the time, but he does a GREAT job of breaking the moves down so that someone at the beginner level can easily and quickly understand the techniques involved. I think this is a great video, and enjoy it just as much, if not more, as the Ammar videos.
marko
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There's a difference between using that Blaine image to amuse your friends with magic and to be using that Blaine image to make money from selling other people's magic to amateurs who don't know any better. It's fine for you to be using that persona if you want. That's how we all learn, by imitating other magicians we admire. Brad is manipulating amateurs with it for his own financial gain. I could maybe view the video objectively if I could just overlook the 'stealing' part. But I can't. So there.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
MichalMystic
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Hmm why I love magic after 17 years still learn something new, never knew that about Houdini Thx for the info!
Joshua Lozoff
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Jake,

Thanks for the reminders. I appreciate your perspective and I think others here could use it as a reminder if they could just calm down a bit.

The ironic part is that I feel PROFESSIONALS are the ones who could stand to learn the most from the casual, "street" style -- which neither David Blaine nor Brad Christian originated.

I have found Ellusionist products, including CC2, helpful for exactly the reasons some here object to it so much:

As much as I admire the skill level of some of the mainstream teaching magicians (Daryl, Ammar, David Roth, etc) their presentational style and connection with their spectators is so different from mine, it's often difficult to learn from their videos.

The Ellusionist videos, both in performance presentation and in approach to magic in general, are much closer to the style many magicians (and audiences!) are interested in today, which is an added benefit for an instructional video.

So I think the stylistic differences are valid reasons for choosing one video over another. It's true that we're learning moves and routines on these tapes, and not trying to copy the performers, Daryl or Brad Christian, but it's always nice to see magic presented in a style you enjoy watching.

The first time I saw Blaine, I thought "wow, he "gets" something about connecting with people that most magicians don't. He's going to be very popular."

Similarly, I am not surprised at Ellusionist's success for the same reasons.
Joshua Lozoff

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MichalMystic
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If you cant learn from videos cause there Style differs from yours, and your having trouble you need to rethink what your doing as you should be able to take anyone’s effect and add to your own style.
I also wanted to add this as this is my pet peeve about Brad or Blaine.


Ok here my number one problem with any post about Blaine took magic onto the streets or thinking that you have to acting like that is the way street magic supposed to be performed. To this I say BS.

First of look at the history of magic around the 1800s magic was on the street and stay there until in moved to bigger venues.
Street Magic or its real name Busking has been around for ever and there has been a lot of great street performers way before Blaine was around.

This bother me so much that when guys say " I do street magic".
I reply with "Oh so you busk" and 90% of the time this is the answer I get,
"No I said I do street magic"

To think busking/street magic is new is just silly and shows the lack of knowledge by some people of there own style of magic.

I’ve been doing busking/street magic for over 10 years now and not once did or have did a lev or 2 card Monte.

You know what street magic is and routine or effect you can do on the streets which is pretty much all of close up.

Heck I even do a coin matrix with a handkerchief on the concrete.

So next time you guys go off about street magic style, know your history and realize that all of you are limiting yourself by thinking this is the way you must perform.

Ill give you a great example I was in Calgary and saw this guy doing magic now this guy style was very similar to Blaine.

The guy was good and new how to perform but when the specs left that were watching him this is what I hear "That guy just acting like the Blaine dude on TV".

Is this what you want open your eyes and make your character on your own that should come from you and what type of person you are.

To me this also one of my pet peeves is that lack of originality Blaine and Guys like Brad cause with guys getting into magic.
It almost like some of you think magic is a formula ellsuionist magic + Blaine Style= Good Magic.
Well I hate to tell you guys but it don’t.
Be your own person ok guys!
That what Id really like to see 10 guys doing street magic but with all different characters.
Blaine they way he is cause that's him it a part of him make your own character don't limit yourselfs!Ok guys?
Jake Ellison
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Joshua never said he couldn't learn from certain videos; he just said it was difficult--there's a difference. We all know that it's essential not to copy someone else's style. His point, though, is that he feels it is easeier to learn from someone whose style more closely resembles your own--and I agree.

I know you're a better magician than I am, and I respect your skills as such. It would be nice if you respected others' opinions, instead of criticizing them. We all approach magic in our own way.
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Ellusionst - CC2 better than Daryl's AmbitiousCard ? (0 Likes)
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