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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » Ellusionst - CC2 better than Daryl's AmbitiousCard ? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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MichalMystic
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I don't think of it as criticizing as making a suggestion I didn't mean it harsh at all I ment is that Im don't understand how it would be harder to learn a routine or sleight no matter what the style is.Take away the style and your still left with the How to, which should be the same to learn from someone no matter what style.

Eh just my opinion.I edited my post also to add some more maybe you get more of what ment when you read the edit.

Ps Im not that great just another guy making a living doing magic trying to feed my kids!lol
Nash
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Jake, I don't know whether your audience LOVES blaine's style, or it's just that they haven't seen enough magic, they haven't been exposed to the Bill Malones, the Jay Sankey, Daryl, Ammer, Roth... or the likes.

personally, I found watching Bill Malone, or Sankey's performance much more entertaining than Blaine's "dude I'm high ... or I'm about to pass out" style of magic ...

To be a true professional (ironcially, I"m not ), you need to learn how to patter, control your audience, and MOST OF ALL, THE INTERACTION between your audience is A MUST.

that is hard because on one hand your mind is on how and when to execute the move, when your mind is doing one thing, it is hard for you to patter in the same time...

so basically, YOU MUST PERFECT the trick to a stage where you can do it while sleeping.

perfecting a trick is more than just executing the moves in the right time.
it's how to use it to interact with your audience and entertain.

AND YES. IT IS HHEELLLLAAA HARD
Don't give up, don't EVER give up.

NashFung.com/virtual-magic-show
bradchristian
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Hive Mind: it's not from the edge, it's from about a third over for the push off taught in C2. Yes, there are several performances on the street and it's always the push-off I do in these.

Josh, I know what you mean - that's why we also have a different production style than LandL or others. Style makes a huge difference to what might be absorbed and we cater to a younger street oriented crowd.

Others: there are a lot of misconceptions in this thread similar to the Houdini-Erdnase one... you would do well to check facts before condemming someone to burn at the stake.

The move I got "busted" on wasn't a move... a girl named Rachel was sitting on the ground underneath me while I performed for a group of teenagers. Pulling a card off the deck my angles were not perfect and she was able to catch a glimplse of the changed card from underneath. I left the move in to show what I did with that during the performance, creating a long voice-over discussing what my thinking was at the time and how I immediately adjusted the performance to accomodate what had just happened. Better that someone could learn from my mistake than go out and do it themselves.

Chris Boyd: take your witch hunt and shove it. Your righteous negative energy is worse than any crediting/permission issues I might have had. Thank God we're not in the 14th century or I'd be burning at the stake right now with you dancing a merry jig around my pole.

Again to the rest of the group: someone recently emailed our team asking politely about the crediting issue. I'm going to reprint that email and our response in the hope of clearing up a few of the misconceptions. Thanks for listening... Brad.

..................


>>>>> 1. Why do you change names of some of the slights and tricks?should'nt the original creators deserve the right to have their tricks and techniques untouched and as they were published?

It's a good idea to get fresh information before you embark on a mission like this, because things may have changed. Sleights have always been given correct names to the best of our knowledge and research. Some effects in Street Magic underwent name changes originally - that was corrected over a year ago and the master video changed to reflect it, (IE Voodoo Zone also known as Card Warp by Roy Walton).

>>>>>> 2. During a meating with magicians,we talked about Ellusionist,since most of the begginers are buying the videos now a days.Looking at the reviews and tricks on the videos,we simply saw that all of the tricks are not original,and that Brad should put some of his own stuff that he has created into these videos,not to make the videos more original and that they reflect more the image of Brad in the eyes of more advanced magicians. Take in consideration,that almost 80% of the things in Ninja 1 can be found in The royal road to card magic,and Expert at the Card table by Erdnase. Why don't you try doing this?look at the many people that buy the videos?why not share you'r own things and knowledge that you wish to expose to the ones that follow you.

We tend to focus on old sleights and moves and then teach them well. Ninja-1 is about the Vegas Cheat Routine solely created by Brad Christian... Ninja-1 is NOT about the moves, it's about the ROUTINE Brad created. You won't find the routine in any book. There are other tricks created by Brad also such as the Fastest Card Trick in the World on Crash-1. The 360 Turnover Pass from Ninja-2 was created by Brad and can now be seen all over the net. Before you make blanket statements like that why not check with us first? Still, Brad's preference is to focus on older moves and sleights - to get the utmost in subtlety from each - and teach them better and more thoroughly than they've ever been taught before. Please pick up a copy of Crash-2 and you'll see one of the most amazing videos ever published on magic.

>>>>> Another suggestion. During the meating,I defended the Ellusionist work by saying that it is a good start for beggining magicians,and it shows other guys that have been practicing for a while;different slights and tricks that you would have to buy an entire book(which obvioulsly you would get a lot of stuff from) to just get that technique or trick. One of the members replied that whatever you did, the student at the end would be left alone in his own path,and while they learn from Brad, they believe that they have reached the top of the line,the best of the very best. Soon the realize that cards go more that they thought,and that they start to deal with riffle shuffling and stacking cards and other techniques such as false counts and palming...and what happends?well,they quit,simply,they stay with that they have and that's it. The main point is this,that many magicians believe that teaching involves telling the student that ahead of him,there's a long road to go,and that if they really want to become more than just another guy doing double lifts and passes,that he must take in consideration that it takes practice and dedication to reach a high point. This also hurts the Ellusionist team,for the interest in card magic and other areas decreases as it gets harder for them,and that means less videos being sold.

This section was a little hard to understand but again, it looks like you have your facts skewed. Ellusionist has support forums - incredible support forums for the advanced and new magician. We recommend and discuss many other avenues besides ellusionist, constantly recommending books and alternate videos. People can write in to our support staff at any time for recommendations.

Please take THIS back to your meeting. We would like recognition from you and your friends for what we DO do. We provide phenomenal teaching aids in magic, superb after market support, money back guarantees if you don't like the video, incredible previews so you KNOW what you're getting into before you buy, tremendous fostering of creativity and the learning of good showmanship in our videos and discussion forums, we get a tremendous number of new people - new blood - into magic and put them on a road to success and results - and hard practice. And best of all, we have taken the common magic video and turned it into an art form - an entertaining and dynamic teaching aid and GETS RESULTS FOR PEOPLE.

Stop picking on little negative things and recognize what we've done and will continue to do. No company has moved faster and farther in a short period of time than us. We take in feedback from our customers like nothing you've ever witnessed before - and we CHANGE accordingly. We admit our mistakes and move on to improve our products. So please STEP BACK and realize it.

Team e l l u s i o n i s t
Steve Friedberg
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Quote:
On 2003-06-10 16:27, MichalMystic wrote:
Did I mention he credits houdini with the erdanase color change!lol


Actually, he's right. The piston-like move that most of us associate with the Erdnase change was popularized by Houdini. Erdnase's change is far more circular.
Cheers,
Steve

"A trick does not fool the eyes, but fools the brain." -- John Mulholland
Kronos9326
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Wow. Where to begin? How to end? Hard to say at this moment.

Most of the issue rasied here have been interesting. The original question was regarding CC2, and somehow, due to a core group of people who's agenda is quite apparent from the beginning, it got twisted into far more than a request for an opinion.

Fact: Things could have started out differently. We all wish that, and you can bet Brad certainly does. Here is something that should interest you. WE CAN'T GO BACK IN TIME!! You want to dredge up names that should be taken to task on things they've done wrong, then start stabbing Fearson and your beloved Ammar in the back as well. They've done things in the past that were not "Magically" acceptable, yet I keep hearing how much better Ammar is.

Remember this, if you are going to judge someone, judge them on not on their mistakes. If you were judged on your mistakes alone, I am sure that you wouldn't be very popular at this moment. And make no mistake, we have ALL made mistakes. Instead, why not judge them on what they do to correct their mistakes, and avoid them in the future. I have seen everyone always harp on what has happened, and not what IS happening. How about treating other people like you would prefer to be treated. Instead, all I see is a bunch of people standing on their pedestal screaming "Look how much better I am!" and pointing fingers, and not letting go of something because they feel important when they keep dredging up the past. Three words people. LET IT GO! It's done and over with. If it was an event that KEPT happening, then yes, get on your horses and charge. BUT IT'S NOT! Crediting is better than ever, and quality keeps improving.

FACT: Most standard magic videos are all alike. Why is it when something that comes along everyone automatically thinks it's bad? Frankly, I hate most magic videos. They bore me to tears, and make me wish I was somewhere else. Need a cure for insomnia, watch a magic tape. I would think that is L&L started copying Brad's way of taping, even just a little bit, there would be a lot more interesting videos out on the market.

FACT: Not everyone is perfect. Now that's a surprise isn't it?

And finally....

FACT: This is the exact reason that I HATE most magicians. If anyone did to you, in your regular lives, the same thing that you are doing to Brad/Ellusionist, you'd be the first to complain. But no, most magicians I talk to are a self-serving mis-informed, my opinion is the only one that matters (or my favourite, I don't have an opinion so I will just spout what I've heard myself instead of educating myself).

Either way, move forward folks, not backwards. You want to know why people think magic is for kids and not us seriously? Things like this. We fight so much amongst ourselves, that even WE don't take ourselves seriously anymore.

I will always and continue to support a person that recognizes their mistakes, and does their best to avoid making them again.

I will ALWAYS ignore a close minded person who refuses to recognize a persons hard work to avoid making a same mistake twice. I will also ignore those that prefer to point out other people's faults while ignoring their own.

David Mitchell.
Alex Linian
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Hey guys, I'm posting this message after reading a few posts, I did not read all of them because there is just way to many.

I JUST WANT TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW THAT NOT ONLY IS ELLUSIONIST DOING WRONG, BUT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY STARTING TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE! CHECK OUT http://www.STREETILLUSION.COM ! It ran by a beginning magician. ( If you don't believe me, check out the demos!) They are selling "David Blaine tricks" each for a high price. They describe the explanations.They also sell Guy Hollingworth's Reformation ( again, their explanations )Talk about illegal!
As stated, their demos suck. A while ago I wrote them an e-mail telling them that they were gonna get trouble for others but they haven't changed a bit.At the botom of one page they wrote: "Credit for the sleights goes to ellusionist and team ellusionist."
Hope U guys care.
Magically,
Alex Linian

Smile
James Brechtel
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Quote:
On 2003-06-29 22:36, al_magicdude wrote:
Hey guys, I'm posting this message after reading a few posts, I did not read all of them because there is just way to many.

I JUST WANT TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW THAT NOT ONLY IS ELLUSIONIST DOING WRONG, BUT PEOPLE ARE ALREADY STARTING TO FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE! CHECK OUT http://www.STREETILLUSION.COM ! It ran by a beginning magician. ( If you don't believe me, check out the demos!) They are selling "David Blaine tricks" each for a high price. They describe the explanations.They also sell Guy Hollingworth's Reformation ( again, their explanations )Talk about illegal!
As stated, their demos suck. A while ago I wrote them an e-mail telling them that they were gonna get trouble for others but they haven't changed a bit.
Hope U guys care.
Magically,
Alex Linian
P.S.: I am 15-year-old working magician with 5 years of experience
Smile



How is this Ellusionist's fault?

Everyone is responsible for their own actions.
sleightofhander
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That was good that Brad came onto the forum and defending himself. I'm a 36 year old man. It was Blaine tv special that got me burning for these close up illusions. Then on the internet searching various sites for learning this kind of magic i ran across ellusionist site. My library has grown quite abit since than. There material is right there in between all my various other dvds and videos ranging from Jay Sankey, Kurtis Kam, Reed Mcclintock, Daryl, Giobbi's Card college1-4, Harry Loraine, Slydini, and John Carney just to name a few. Bottom line is Blaine and ellusionist started a love for magic that i wished i had when i was a kid. Smile
daniel1113
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Quote:
On 2003-06-05 19:01, HiveMind wrote:

Maybe everyone should also list all the
Ellusionist products they OWN before bashing
them. Some people have just joined the mob
on this one.


Street Magic
Ninja 1
Ninja 2
Inside Magic

Yep, I own all of those videos, and I am somewhat ashamed to admit it. From one aspect, Elussionist is what got me started in magic, and for that I am thankful. But then again, I cannot believe the number of 12 year olds that have bought their videos, practiced for one night, then "performed" the next day in school. I know that is a big generalization, but it is almost true. Except for the few individuals that decided to take the art seriously (myself included), Ellusionist has done nothing for the magic world. Is that illegal? No. Is it wrong? Yes.

I finally left the Ellusionist forums after a 13 year old told me that I knew nothing about card magic. They think they know everything about the art after purchasing 5 videos from Ellusionist, but they haven't even tipped the iceberg. Heck, I probably own 20 books and 30 DVDs, and I am still "new" to the art by professional standards.

After I got my Street Magic and Ninja videos, I didn't perform a single trick for 4 months while I continuously practiced. I nearly mastered every trick, and I had a performance to go with it. The tricks aren't bad, the Ellusionist customers just don't take the time to perfect them.

Ellusionist caters to its customer base... 12 year olds that like David Blaine and want to learn magic overnight... and they do a dang good job at it. Unfortunately, good business is not good for the magic community.

That aside, the technical quality of the videos is probably the best I have ever seen on a magic video Smile.
Daniel M. Carrico
kermitthefrog
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1. It has been said that what Brad Christian is doing is illegal. So far as I can tell, this is not true. Someone making a serious claim like this should support it in detail or drop it. Cite the law he is violating. There isn't one.

2. I'm sorry to be the one to say that, however, because I have real ethical problems with his approach. Hey, I know: why don't I start a site where I charge people $20 and in return show them the secrets of all my favorite card tricks -- tricks devised by other people? I could make some good, easy money that way! Yes, I could; and it would be legal. But it would be wrong, and a disservice to the magic community. Some beginners would visit my site and get started on the pursuit of magic, but that doesn't make it right. It would violate customs that exist in our little community, that are there for good reason, and that have great value.

3. I also think that the videos I have seen from ellusionist (and I have seen a couple) are poor (Michael Close had it right in Magic Magazine: they're strictly for suckers), but that's a different issue.

KF
Review King
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Daryl's video pushes his Ultimate Ambition on his video. Brad just teaches the effect. And..he credits everyone.

I like The Elluisionist material. It's not for everyone, but then again neither is Jeff McBride's stuff.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
marko
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Daryl doesn't 'push' anything on his video other than practicing good technique. His Ultimate Ambition gimmick wasn't even for sale at the time.

Saying Ellusionist is not for everyone is like saying having your wallet stolen isn't for everyone. And I don't know how McBride got into that sentence.
Thought: Why does man kill? He kills for food. And not only food: frequently there must be a beverage.
Review King
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The gimmick was for sale-through him. He's been selling the gimmick since he did the Stevens video. I have no problem with that-he should do that-I'm just stating a fact.

Wallet being stolen? What a weird statement. Elluisonist material is not for everyone. period. Some people don't like certain performers ( like McBride).

Research your facts-it makes for better posts. Smile
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
Kronos9326
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At the risk of actually imflaming things more than they already are...

You like it or you don't, you like him or you don't, but do you really have to exhaust your energy this much in order to tell us that?

Sigh.

David.
Review King
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On that line of thinking, whey even have the Café? A friendly exchnage of thoughts and ideas is healthy.

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
kermitthefrog
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The great thing is that if someone doesn't like these exchanges they aren't forced to read them. (So why complain if they aren't to your taste?) For me, I find the spirited debate invigorating.

KF
Review King
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Good man kermitthefrog!!!

As long as they are helpful and not slamminge ach other, I love a good debate!!

Chris
"Of all words of tongue and pen,
the saddest are, "It might have been"

..........John Greenleaf Whittier
dr_tezza
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hi i am fairly new in magic, and to be honest i would rather have a place to come and read reviews on products, with their good and bad points. i think now everyone knows the short comings of ellusionist, and it is obvious that they are trying to fix the problem. i initially read this post, to get an honest opinion of what was the better video to learn from, and of the now 100 posts i would say that only 10 even attempt to answer that question.

i think maybe we should conduct ourselves with more dignity, and leave these problems from the past alone!
strmagguru
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I have to stick up for Ellusionist, they are the best site I have ever ordered from and whoever said somthing about the twelve year old ordering a video then performing at school the next day. NAME ONE KID!!!
I don"t want to be them I want to be like them.
artofmanipulation
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I did not buy from ellusionist. But I bought one dvd by Ed marlo, I learn the trick overnight and perform the "magic" in class the next day. The qustion here is Is Ed Marlo at fault?
Did he encourage me to learn and then perform simultaneously?
Did he have complete control of my behaviour after I bought his dvd just to make sure that people will not bombard him in forum like this?

and finally, how is Brad Christian's situation any different from his?

What is the meaning of communication if people keeps saying things which are not based on fact. There is a layman term for it and it's called lying. You lie, I lie and everybody lie. And voila , communication that make sense to you?
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