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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Right or Wrong? » » I kind of find this funny..., does anyone know this guy? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Eric Jones
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I good friend of mine just sent this to me:

http://www.pubtricks.com/video-pub-majestic-trick.html

I wanted to have pubtricks remove the video from their site for sale, and was referred to their copyright page:

http://www.pubtricks.com/copyright.php

This is too funny..., well at least he does the change well.... lol
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com
Maestro
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Yeah, that's stupid... I guess on the internet you can make your own copyright laws Smile.
bugjack
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Actually, his understanding of copyright law is accurate. One can of course argue with the site's ethics.
Ben Train
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I just picked up a copy. Thanks for point this out!

Ben "hehehe" Train
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
pabloinus
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Eric, candid question. why do you want for the download to be removed?
Eric Jones
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 12:58, pabloinus wrote:
Eric, candid question. why do you want for the download to be removed?


NO problem sir. I'll give you three good reasons I'd like to see it removed from that website:

1) The effect is actually called El Cambio Nada.
2) It's an effect for sale on http://www.theory11.com.
3) I kinda invented it.
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com
Ben Train
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 13:18, Eric Jones wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-05 12:58, pabloinus wrote:
Eric, candid question. why do you want for the download to be removed?


NO problem sir. I'll give you three good reasons I'd like to see it removed from that website:

1) The effect is actually called El Cambio Nada.
2) It's an effect for sale on http://www.theory11.com.
3) I kinda invented it.


Boom. Triple smackdown.
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
MickeyPainless
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I suppose you could look at it from the angle that you've reached a level of quality and expertise where the Magic Fakers are ripping off your work!

I'm very sorry to see this man but FWIW I bought YOUR download when it came out!

MMc
Eric Jones
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 13:42, MickeyPainless wrote:
I suppose you could look at it from the angle that you've reached a level of quality and expertise where the Magic Fakers are ripping off your work!

I'm very sorry to see this man but FWIW I bought YOUR download when it came out!

MMc


Mickey, it's worth more than you know....

I'm not upset or bitter. I just understand why so many people are secretive w/ their work and don't want videos of their work floating around online. However, I'd love to chat face to face w/ the guy with the balls to boldly(and proudly I might add) put his face on a move he KNEW wasn't his, purposely renamed it and is making money on it. Remember the scene in The Dark Knight w/ the Joker and Batman in the interrogation room? For some strange reason, that scene is playing over and over in my head....lol j/k
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com
pabloinus
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Thanks Eric, I did not know.
I think that based on their copyrights you can show that yours were for sale before and all the discussion on thecafe on your move.
Lawrence O
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I would simply file a complaint for theft. This is a clear rip off of El Cambio Nada.
It's not only a copyright infringement: it's a straight outright theft. Sue them for damages.

I think that we should find the performer and have him excluded from entry in the Magic Castle, the Magic Circle, the Magic Café, the SAM, and the IBM, just to name a few.

I'm not marketing any of my effects exactly because of this type of practice and I'm not the only one, by far. Thus the community doesn't gain anything from such thefts. El Cambio Nada was already accessible at a reasonable price and people like me will keep on refraining from publishing routines and moves: so somehow it's not only a loss for Eric Jones.

Let's fight this type of behavior: it's worse than the "masked magician" that we successfully fought.

There is no doubt in my mind that it is in our best interest to side with Eric's legitimate fight
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
bugjack
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Guys, it's not copyright infringement. You can't copyright a move. It may not seem fair to magicians and creators, but it's the law.

It's kind of embarrassing when a guy on a copycat website knows more about intellectual property law than the magicians on this board.
Eric Jones
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 14:15, bugjack wrote:
Guys, it's not copyright infringement. You can't copyright a move. It may not seem fair to magicians and creators, but it's the law.

It's kind of embarrassing when a guy on a copycat website knows more about intellectual property law than the magicians on this board.


I guess they should know more....they have to find a loop hole to keep ripping people off. Where's Tim Ellis when you need him? Here's another product for the Magic Faker's Blog...lol

I don't want to ban the guy. As far as I know, he came out with the thing independantly. I doubt it, but it could be possible. I just want the trick removed from the website, and since it doesn't meet the criteria listed on the pubtricks website, I haven't got a leg to stand on. Again, I'm not pi$$ed, just frustrated with the state of our community.
“We're two tigers away from an act in Vegas.” Greg House M.D.
<BR>
<BR>http://www.ericjonesmagic.com
Maestro
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 14:15, bugjack wrote:
Guys, it's not copyright infringement. You can't copyright a move. It may not seem fair to magicians and creators, but it's the law.

It's kind of embarrassing when a guy on a copycat website knows more about intellectual property law than the magicians on this board.


Yeah, I don't think it's embarassing, it is his "job" after all as Eric pointed out.
kcg5
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What about the use of music? Does he need Metallica's permission?
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
bugjack
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Yes, in fact, he does. A DMCA takedown notice could be filed for that, although it would have to be filed by the copyright holder, which is Metallica and/or their label. But Metallica is well known for going after people in the online space so I'm sure if it was brought to their attention.... (I'm writing this seriously doubting that he properly licensed the music.)

(It brings up a related thing: so many magicians complain about IP theft that isn't actually IP theft as defined by the law, but then have no compunction with using copyrighted music they have not licensed in their demos and even in their DVDs).

Before I said magicians' ignorance of IP law is embarrassing, but I'll amend that here: this guy's use of copyrighted music in his demo after posting a very fact-filled and accurate legal disclaimer page is what's truly embarrassing.

(I'll confess to not recognizing the Metallica clip.)
Ray Tupper.
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Quote:
On 2009-09-05 11:06, Eric Jones wrote:
This is too funny......well at least he does the change well....lol

Maybe....But his taste in art leaves a little to be desired.That picture reminds me of the wallpaper in our lounge in the 60's,not a good look!
On topic,he has a hell of a big tell with the movement of the right third finger.
Exposure happens,it's a fact of life...but to charge for it?
Thieving tossbag!!
Ray.
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A cure for tourettes!
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C*nt!
Scott F. Guinn
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What's legal and what's right are very often two entirely different things. In US history alone, we see that it was legal to own slaves at one time; it was legal to keep women out of the political process; it was legal to make people of color use different restrooms and drinking fountains--but none of those things were right.

It may be somehow legal to put out this video, but that doesn't make it right. Sadly, there is no way to get people to do the right thing. They have to choose to do so. And often, each of us chooses not to do the right thing under the guise of "doing what's right for me." At some point, in some way or another, I doubt there is anyone among us who is not guilty of that. The question is, how do we respond when we are confronted with our behavior? Again, there is right and there is "legal." If I'm this guy and Eric calls me on it, I have two options: toc claim I have done nothing "illegal" and tell him to take a hike, or to do the right thing, take down the video, and pay Eric for damages (give him the profits that rightfully shoould have been his).

IMO, magicians and society at large should become more concerned with doing the right thing then with getting away with as much as possible and still being "legal". But frankly, I don't hold out much hope for that ever happening.

FWIW, Eric, I'm gonna go buy your original right now.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
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Ragman
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Hey here is a thought if you don't want your stuff ripped off never perform it, never show it to anyone, and never ever market it! Now you know the key to retaining your original thoughts!
bugjack
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I mostly agree with you, Scott, about the difference between what's right and what's legal. The fact is, though, that recourse through the legal system and the use of concepts like "damages" are mostly reserved for things that are illegal. (I suppose it's not unprecedented to ask for damages in a non-legal situation, but it seems unlikely here, and once denied there is no real recourse except to shun this guy, and I doubt he'd care much.)

As for non-legal recourse, I completely agree. As this community demonstrates again and again, the most effective policing is one of using shared community values to protest this behavior and convince magic consumers to buy from original creators and respected magicians.

However, the one thing I'll add is that magic does not have any kind of royalty system akin to the types of licenses, fees, and performing rights that other art forms have. There is no system of dividing up royalties based on not only the creator's work but on the work of all the people who have come before him, the people who developed the foundations for the moves and/or effects. At what point does a move or variation rise to the level that it is considered to be unique and original enough for someone to receive 100% of the revenues associated with it?

Eric's move looks amazing, but I think what Eric is selling given the un-copyrightable qualities of magic effects is his teaching. Eric has great chops, a great reputation, and from the other vids of his I've seen is a fantastic teacher. That's the reason that one should buy from him and not this guy.
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