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InvisibleMonkey Regular user 136 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-10 14:56, InvisibleMonkey wrote: I don't want to be smug or anything, but seeing as monkeypuzzletree was so rude yesterday, I think it's only fair to point out how my prediction of how the show would pan out, is spookily spot on no? So above is my quote from yesterday as to what I expected in the show. |
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jbadman Special user London 985 Posts |
A massive anti-climax.
What a let down that show was :-( Jamie. P.S. He definitely did it backwards!
http://www.underground-collective.com - check out our new DVD now!
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AnDraÃodóir New user Ireland 89 Posts |
Ah, humbug. I feel the special was quite the missed opportunity. Fair enough if that is the route he wanted to go down but he missed out on several opportunities to throw in convincers that camera tricks were out of the question in the live studio feed. It could've been as simple to have the numbers revealed to the volunteers "before" he popped off to do the live show, so that he would have several witnesses that would vouch that he showed them the numbers "before" the draw, and those were the numbers revealed. At the end of the day, he didn't predict the lottery, he got 24 others to do it. The lazy arse.
Oh well! Still a huge of admirer of his. I suppose the tongue in cheek rigging of the lotto may have sweetened it for me.
Philip Ryan
"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know" -Socrates |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18030 Posts |
My friend watched Mindfreak the other night and said it was nothing but Camera tricks, and he's done ever watching again. That pleased me in a way, but what are these guys doing to Mentalism ...... Camera Tricks?
Is that what's happening here?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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InvisibleMonkey Regular user 136 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-11 17:17, Lord Of The Horses wrote: I think the answer to that is "most people care". Everyone I've asked all agrees with one thing: that using camera tricks is a cheap con and shouldn't be part of the magicians toolkit. It's the one universal agreed thing the public trust magicians NOT to use. No idea why it is that way, but it seems pretty much across the board. |
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InvisibleMonkey Regular user 136 Posts |
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On 2009-09-11 17:20, Psychic Samurai wrote: Yeah that's exactly it. People just hate camera tricks. They have a mental image of a Magician/Mentalist being above that kind of thing, that our methods will be more cunning and devious. |
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Lord Of The Horses Inner circle 5406 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-11 17:22, InvisibleMonkey wrote: Well, on this you get 100% agreement from me. But my post was not aimed at this, as you know. I said that this could be ONE exception... However, I'm no expert as you, Ian, N Fox seem to be on the subject so I have neither positive nor negative proof ... and not even a clue... to say he used camera tricks! Also, not reading blogs and not asking people (because frankly I don't care either way) I don't know how many / few were disappointed by this last stunt or by its explanation. But I can take your word... Me, I liked the performance and, as for the "explanation", I didn't watch it and I don't care to... so I won't.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
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InvisibleMonkey Regular user 136 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-11 17:31, Lord Of The Horses wrote: Have a read here: http://www.guardian.co.uk/culture/tvandr......ntpage=5 Unfortunatly, I think Derren has just created the biggest amount of hype he's ever had in this country, and then, rather sadly, it's backfired on him. People just arn't going to trust him after this, anyone who wasn't already a fan and watched this out of curiosity, will most likely never watch another show. Shame as WE all know that he's actually really good when he sticks to real tricks and dosn't screw around with special effects. He should really do something old school, get himself a show with a live audience. Maybe even make it a variety show and get other performers on too. It'd suit him down to the ground, it's what he's best at. |
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AnDraÃodóir New user Ireland 89 Posts |
I'm looking forward to Camelot's next press release regarding his final explanation. Bit more press never did anyone any harm.
Philip Ryan
"The more I learn, the more I learn how little I know" -Socrates |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18030 Posts |
Here's the blog entry
10.03pm: So that was the explanation: some deep maths harnessing the power of the crowd. With an odd bit about how you could fix the lottery if you had a lot of kit and an inside man, tacked on the end. Given the hype, I think Brown possibly had to do better than that. A mathematician might be able to correct us (if you're out there, and you think this works, do please come and say), but the general feeling on this blog is that it doesn't stand up. Boo! But thanks everyone in for joining us in any case. And keep developing those theories.... They Boo'd him?
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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InvisibleMonkey Regular user 136 Posts |
Here's an interesting quote from the Guardian blog:
"My mates were at the show last night (one of them was the girl on her own looking up at the screen when he gave the "fix" explanation) and they are spitting feathers cos apparently at the screening he showed a video of himself on an open-topped bus driving through Oxford St in Xmas 2008. He was there with six other people who were holding up the numbers that were picked out on Wednesday night. They're surprised he didn't use that footage in the broadcast. Although the girl is mostly just pleased to have been on the tellybox." Now if this is true, and I can't see why it wouldn't be, why would they remove such an important moment from the show? As this would clearly have added a LOT of weight to it. Unless of course, the numbers being held up on the bus were CGI or camera effects, and he didn't want to get caught using video effects twice. Only explanation I can think of, if of course that comment is true. |
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ogami_itto New user Aberdeen, UK 26 Posts |
Surely everyone by now knows that what you see initially is not the full story. Derren and Andy I am sure will be building the effects with each show, so its a little unfair to judge right now.
Did anyone REALLY expect them to explain?? surely not... I thought it was highly entertaining as usual and that was the whole point of the performance. |
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BillyTheSquid Veteran user My bamboo hut's supported on 331 Posts |
Ok - so WHY does HE have to do the calculations in the pre-live broadcast session? Why does HE have to take the balls and not let anyone else see them?
OBVIOUS! There's a dual reality going on here: 1) The home viewers are seeing a video overlayed split screen effect whilst some monkey puts the balls dozily into the rack (as observed by the screen dumps we've seen here). 2) The group of 24 people think that the numbers he's calculated are the ones that are on the 6 balls he's put into the OPAQUE tube (come on lads it's obvious what he's doing here!). When the reveal is performed, everyone thinks he's pulled off the greatest trick this century (which I still believe it is, even with the overlay, I think that's a perfectly acceptable piece of magic personally within the context of what he's done - dirty method = amazing stunt = worldwide renown). Even if this isn't how it was performed (and I can only see this as the viable option given the evidence of moving balls and camera stillness for 3 seconds, CGI used in his trailers, together with the new evidence of dual reality going on), it COULD be performed this way. My hat's off to you DB guys for this presentation on the Wednesday night. However, I think you may have over egged the explanation on Friday - mathematical nonsense for a generally not very mathematically literate nation. Entertaining nontheless, but not his best show on Friday. Wednesday made me feel what a clever chap he was, Friday made me feel what a charlatan he really is (but then aren't we all in a sense in this art). He should have left it on Wednesday for us to all still be talking about instead of feeling cheated and lied to (and that's just they laymen I'm hearing from in my web wanderings). One thing's for sure, it's actually done us live performers a huge favour. No-one's able to say "Ah - you don't use any of that camera trickery stuff that Derren Brown uses, you do it right infront of our eyes". Maybe they've thrown us a golden bone on this one? Bed now. To relax and rest smug in the knowledge that my thoughts and predictions about what he'd do tonight would come true (and without me using any CGI video overlays either). zzz Matt |
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BillyTheSquid Veteran user My bamboo hut's supported on 331 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-09-11 17:59, InvisibleMonkey wrote: Wonder if the person who posted on The Guardian blog is an anagram of Andy Nyman OF COURSE they'd have used that piece of film footage (if it really does exist) - it would be more amazing than any of the stunts he performed in his Friday show and knock scoffers and sceptics for six. The truth is, the film footage doesn't exist, unless they now decide to put something together quickly. And yes, I still believe they put a man on the moon BTW! They're possibly bricking it now because there's a perfectly good explanation out there and photographic evidence that proves beyond doubt that the balls moved "all by themselves". Looks like they'll be a few people attempting a damage limitation exercise. |
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pearljamjeff Inner circle Ann Arbor 1249 Posts |
Didn't see the show tonight. However, every flipping one of you that think Derren used a camera or editing trick to pull this effect off... read a magic book for crying out loud. You spend too much time on the wrong parts of this forum perhaps. In typical Derren Brown fashion, he fooled the crap out of magicians with their own, standard magic methods. Stop crying foul and go read a book!
Jeff Travilla - I own an advertising agency to help finance my magic addiction.
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lin Special user California 877 Posts |
I've got no idea how he did it, but my gut tells me you're right...
("I'm nobody! Who are you?") |
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BillyTheSquid Veteran user My bamboo hut's supported on 331 Posts |
Didn't see the show? Then how can you possibly comment on what was done tonight?
Read a magic book? Now what might those things be? Everything I learned I learned from the masked magician Trouble is, I have read widely and am a particluar fan of dual reality, using it a lot on my performances as it's a pet interest (I love the kick it gives). A cheap throwaway statement like that shows that you've not put a lot of thought into this (are you busy typing similar things on BBS around the world??? ) He HASN'T fooled the crap out of magicians, that's the problem. Your statement can only be true IF you know the method DB used, which unless you're part of his team (hmm now I wonder), you don't. So, unless you're part of his team, you're talking rot I'm sorry to say. We've generated a perfectly valid explanation that would stand the test of being performed again elsewhere using these techniques and generate the same results, so he hasn't fooled us at all. What he has done is get our cogs working, which I've enjoyed immensely. |
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Caliban Special user 727 Posts |
So ... camera trick it was then.
I found the pseudo explaination to be extremely weak and unconvincing. A group of people write down random numbers, which are collected up secretly. The participants don't know what numbers the others have written. Derren takes them away himself and, without any kind of scrutiny or validation, claims to work out the most common numbers. Then after the lottery result is announced he goes - "Yep, those are the numbers they said". How can that even be claimed as an effect? The final "how I could have cheated" bit might have been effective if every newspaper in the country hadn't already published the correct (and far more believable) method before the show was broadcast. The sad fact is, even if the split screen theory is wrong - it COULD have worked that way. And all magicians know that, if the audience have a possible explaination, it doesn't matter whether it's the real method or not - they have an explaination and there's no magic. Especially, in this instance, where the method that's been widely broadcast is far more credible than the explaination given in the show. |
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Slim King Eternal Order Orlando 18030 Posts |
Here's a problem... perhaps THE problem.
Debunkers are fond of simply stating, "I can duplicate, this by Yadda Yadda Yadda " " this has been Debunked!" This type of thinking is in full swing, right or wrong. Derren hasn't told me how he did it personally, but he did tell everyone in the UK that he'd tell them... right? Well, it sounds to me that they aren't buying it ... Just sayin':)
THE MAN THE SKEPTICS REFUSE TO TEST FOR ONE MILLION DOLLARS.. The Worlds Foremost Authority on Houdini's Life after Death.....
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John McDonald Regular user Manchester, England, UK 171 Posts |
Derron and Andy must be laughing their socks off.
Brilliant Brilliant show - it was what I expected adn if you thought there would be a reveal. Really?? it was s SUPERB piece of showmanship and the bit at the end where he said. It was just a trick was a great piece of pathos. Love the show. Love Derren xx Love Andy too.
Best wishes John
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