I'm pretty happy with my face down classic force, but I'm attempting to learn Whit Haydn's "Chicago Surprise", which (in order to produce maximum effect) needs a face-up classic force.

2 questions:

1) Does the new World's Greatest Magic DVD on the classic force explain face-up classic forces at all?
2) What are some good sources for a face-up classic force?

Thanks,

Alex

Hello Alex

Mr. Haydn is a member here. Perhaps if you PM him directly he will help you.

Regards
Irfaan

If you have a face down classic force, then the faces toward the spectator force should be easy.

It is not really a "face-up" force, rather the deck is held at face level away from the performer and toward the spectator. It works with the same type of timing as the classic force. The only difference is that I usually try to pick a card that the spectator is going to want to take for the force card--Queen of Hearts or Ace of Hearts for normal spectators, 7 of Clubs or 10 of Clubs for magicians.

The timing and actions are otherwise the same. Imagine if you are classic forcing a card. Now simply lift the deck up to the spectator's eye level so he can see the faces of the cards and continue.

The wonderful "out" in the Chicago Surprise makes it unimportant whether this force is made or not. The lack of concern on the part of the performer adds to the likeliness of success in the force.

Thanks for that, I'll give it a go.

For what it's worth, the booklet on this trick has challenged my conventional way of thinking about magic, let alone the Chicago Surprise. It is an excellent lesson in routine construction - "how can I make this effect better?"

Whit is a gentleman and a MASTER. And he's absolutely right. The Chicago Surprise is well worth the effort. I use it in my strolling situations all the time.

FYI: For those who are reading this but DON'T have a classic force nailed just yet...

Buy Paul Green's DVD on the classic force. You can find it at the usual places. He's a worker and the DVD is great stuff.

That is good advice. Paul does a truly wonderful classic force, and teaches it extremely well.

Hi Everyone,

Thanks Whit & Joe (Joe & Whit)!

Whit's work from the Chicago Surprise is wonderful!!!

Other sources for the Classic Force (besides my DVD) include:
Paul Green's Classic Force - DVD
Paul Gertner's Private Lessons - DVD just released
Paul Gertner's FORCING IN THE CLASSIC MANNER - Booklet
Whit Hadyn's work on the Chicago Surprise
Eddie Tullock Book on Trade Shows - Check with H & R Books
Eddie Tullock's DVD set from L & L Publishing
Giobbi's Card College, Volume 1
Royal Road to Card Magic
Expert Card Technique
Gary Oullett's Touch Force

My work on the face-up Classic where the card is removed from the deck includes this short little intro: "I am going to show you all of the cards,... Please don't look for a specific card,... Just let fate decide which card you will take." I use this quite often by putting an odd-backed card in the deck. I also use it in my "I Knew It All the Time" routine.

Enjoy the search. Apologies for any sources not listed.

Respectfull regards,

Paul Green

Further addenda to the above list needs to include:

Mark Mason's lecture notes
Mark Mason's DVD (can't remember its title)

Continue to enjoy the search,

Paul Green

You might check out my Behind-The-Back classic force. Would fit perfectly for face-up force. HL

I think that Chicago Surprise, if anything, plays a little better when you miss the force. Though that doesn't stop me from trying to hit it every time. That probably suggests something pathological about my psyche.

My vote goes to Paul Green's Classic Force - DVD. Doing it face up is easier because people don't suspect that you would force a card when they can see them all. Now you still need to do a proper classic force and I agree that Paul's teaching is the best that I know (and I know a few). Steven Youell is also a good source and he needs our help right now, so it would be a good idea to register to his site.

Yea paul greens dvd is awesome..

I don't think it plays better when you miss the force, it just plays different.

The out gives you a much more observable reaction, because of the nature of the surprise. The spectator's head jerks from the instant of surprise and the reaction is usually loud and effective.

If you make the force, and the spectator does not change his mind, the magical effect is stronger, but the reaction is often subdued--silence, deep astonishment.

I prefer the latter, but I will happily take the former.

Completely agree with above. The trick, in my mind, is stronger when the force succeeds. But you still have some top quality magic when you miss. Plus if you take the advice in the booklet about saying something like "no really, you can choose any card" and flashing the force card multiple times in different ways, the final effect is even better.

You may want to read THIS thread...

^^^ Interesting. I just read that whole thread, only 4 years ago it was set to be released!

I wonder if it really will be the "grail" of classic forces.

In any case, I'm pretty happy with the classic force as it currently stands, so no biggie. My audiences believe they're getting a free choice anyway. Free will my hat.