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Lance Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-09-18 12:17, Zacharias wrote:
Hey Lance,
Just read your post and realized you're in Oklahoma city. I'm on my way to the state fair right now. I live in Weatherford about 70 miles away,but I'm up there all the time. When was the last time you sessioned with someone? It's been years for me, so let me know if you ever need a fresh perspective.


John Carney lectures in Midwest City Monday night. Let me know if you need details, and then come on up!

Cheers,



Lance
Zachary
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I haven't been to a lecture since Aaron Fisher toured w/ paper engine. Any information you can give me on the lecture would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
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Lance Pierce
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I've PM'd you.
james1a
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Gentlemen so there are only eight note this is completely wrong. If you do not know this do not use this misleading statement. If you do know this shame on you.
Magic is not an art.
james1a
MickeyPainless
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In fact there are only 7 notes in the Major scale (A,B,C,D,E,F and G) 8 notes in an octave (C-C)!

I won't even touch the art comment!

MMc
abc
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There are sharps and flats and you don't have to only use the notes in the major scale to compose a piece of music. Therefore there are 12.
Zachary
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I believe that my music metaphor may have made mud of my main point. (I hate alliteration) Do you guys think that our magic, given the recent surge of digitally driven sites offering on demand instruction, is becoming watered down with hastily concieved plots and sleights. A buffet would be a better comparison. Either you order off of the menu and trust the culinary expert to created a balanced dish that has good presentation and complements it's sides or you can brave the 'on demand buffet' and get the sub-standard, mass-produced food that lacks those same traits. Don't get me wrong.... I love me some golden corral and china king.
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MickeyPainless
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A perfect buffet has 13 entrees! Smile
Adam1975
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Sod the magic that buffet sounds mighty fine! Smile
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
james1a
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Micky:
I am sorry Micky if you cannot hear the difference between a B and a b or a Bflat and a bflat.
I repeat for your benefit magic is not an art.
james1a
Ben Train
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I agree- magic is not an art. But, before I state my reasons why I think this, would you care to share your reason for making such a claim?

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favorite magician.
MickeyPainless
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Quote:
On 2009-09-20 21:07, james1a wrote:
Micky: I am sorry Micky if you cannot hear the difference between a B and a b or a Bflat and a bflat.
I repeat for your benefit magic is not an art.
james1a


Who says I can't hear it? I simply stated that there are 7 notes in the Major scale nothing more, nothing less!

No need to restate your art comment to me, I honestly don't care hence my comment about not touching it!

MMc
james1a
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Ben:
Art is something an artist does. Similarly music is not an art, certainly not when I do it.
Micky:
Once more you are wrong, remember sharps and flats. Plus of course there are all those other scales, microtones etc.
james1A
DonEngland
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Personally..i hope,believe that the people who love the art of magic (performing art) will stop with the idea of making a quick buck, being arrogant, and lacking
all civility. I think, for the most part, the market will resolve these issues.
We will discover a golden age of our art, and the need to give inspirational sources etc
and our art will increase, and things will move forward. These are my hope.
Ben Train
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Quote:
On 2009-09-21 10:42, james1a wrote:
Ben:
Art is something an artist does. Similarly music is not an art, certainly not when I do it.
Micky:
Once more you are wrong, remember sharps and flats. Plus of course there are all those other scales, microtones etc.
james1A


Darwin's craft versus art argument, from Designing? I agree. Nothing is inherently an art. Excepting female nude-modeling.

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favorite magician.
Zachary
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I'm sure there is a twenty page thread about this tangent arguement in the Café, but how is magic not an art? We, as magicians, fit the mold and definition of an artist (look it up), just as well as the stereotypical artist. Take a look at the con artists, similar in toolset yet the polar opposite regarding intent... And they get the label of artist built in. The fine arts include theatre, a single facet in the rare gem that is our art. Not to mention the imagination and sensitivity that goes into creating a new routine, presentation, or effect. Sure, it may not be held in the same regards as a painter or a sculptor to the lay, but we are nonetheless a vivid personification of the defined artist. If you don't find fault in the very fair claims I made in this post alone, then please look up one of the many definitions of 'artist' and if you still think magic fails as an art, please BRIEFLY explain why. This shouldn't be the kind of discussion that warrants 10 pages of the same points being recycled. Btw Mr Train and Sir Musgrave of Andrew, I just got set up on Skype so hit me up if you want to throw around dome ideas. My username is WhatThumbtip. That goes for anyone. You geeks. Smile
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Lance Pierce
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First we have to consider what, if anything, separates art from craft. Both a housepainter and a portraitist use essentially the same tools, as does the five-year-old in pre-K. If painting is inherently an art, a monkey could pick up a brush and some oils and have at it.

But the products of a housepainter, a child and a monkey generally don't qualify as "art" on any realistic level. So...what's the difference?

The only consistently workable distinction that I've been able to use is that art communicates and craft doesn't. With art, the viewer, listener or audience picks up on some kind of essential idea or communication. If that's not there, there's nothing for them to relate to, and therefore there is no art.

If this is acceptable to you, then you can see why nothing is inherently an art, not even magic. Before it can be, you have to put something of yourself into it that the audience can receive. The more you can express that's of meaning to the audience, the higher the artistic level you will have achieved...but until we achieve some -- any -- level of communication, we're simply exercising our craft.
Zachary
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A good point Lance, I do believe that merely going through the motions of an effect with no real essence of one's self in it falls short of the art mark. These are the housepainters and move monkeys. I think it's a safe bet that when a magician starts creating his own material, he takes it to art status. Wether magic is an art in the hands of the hobbyist is a weaker arguement that I won't be touching right now. Too many shades of grey there. IMHO, the original magician is, at the least, an artist. I'll see you at the lecture tonight Lance, thanks for filling me in.
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MickeyPainless
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Quote:
On 2009-09-21 10:42, james1a wrote:
Micky:
Once more you are wrong, remember sharps and flats. Plus of course there are all those other scales, microtones etc.
james1A


James,

Rather than get all wordy I simply clipped this from Wiki. My references have been to the "Major" scale not a Pentatonic or any other! This is basic music 101 stuff I remember learning in early lessons over 40 years ago!

In music theory, the major scale or Ionian scale is one of the diatonic scales. It is made up of seven distinct notes, plus an eighth which duplicates the first an octave higher. In solfege these notes correspond to the syllables "Do, Re, Mi, Fa, Sol, La, Ti, (Do)".

This really has little to do with the topic at hand so if you'd like to discuss it further, lets take it to PM!

MMc
Lance Pierce
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Quote:
On 2009-09-21 12:14, Zacharias wrote:
A good point Lance, I do believe that merely going through the motions of an effect with no real essence of one's self in it falls short of the art mark. These are the housepainters and move monkeys. I think it's a safe bet that when a magician starts creating his own material, he takes it to art status. Wether magic is an art in the hands of the hobbyist is a weaker arguement that I won't be touching right now. Too many shades of grey there. IMHO, the original magician is, at the least, an artist. I'll see you at the lecture tonight Lance, thanks for filling me in.


There will be storms between 6 and 9 PM, so drive safely.
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