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Maitre D
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:19, acesover wrote:
Oh yea ..there is something I see done all the time when playing cards..an individual takes trips and puts them on the deck then shuffles...seems like you guys have double standards if you think that is legit.


While collecting the cards from the last round of play, the desired cards are naturally arranged in whichever way the shuffler desires. Combine this with any stored cards you may have on the bottom of the deck, and you have yourself a classic setup.

Pretty basic stuff, acesover.
MickeyPainless
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:19, acesover wrote:

Oh yea ..there is something I see done all the time when playing cards..an individual takes trips and puts them on the deck then shuffles...seems like you guys have double standards if you think that is legit.


It's a stacking demo not a find the card(s) trick! One method of culling has already been mentioned and there are plenty others but again, it ain't a card trick!
acesover
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:29, Maitre D wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:19, acesover wrote:
Oh yea ..there is something I see done all the time when playing cards..an individual takes trips and puts them on the deck then shuffles...seems like you guys have double standards if you think that is legit.


While collecting the cards from the last round of play, the desired cards are naturally arranged in whichever way the shuffler desires. Combine this with any stored cards you may have on the bottom of the deck, and you have yourself a classic setup.

Pretty basic stuff, acesover.


Nothing basic aabout it. First youhave to find 3 of a kind then you must arrange them in the order yu want in this case each one of the 3 at every fifth card for the first two then the third one at one of the flop cards after the burn. All this depends on there not being a cut which must be offered.

That is why I say that what was done on this vid is only possible once in a great whie. That would be in a game just starting or possibly after "chipping up" when someone is just fiddling with the cards and it looks like they are randomly shuffling the deck and not really shuffling for a deal.

Again it is not a trick. It is only a "cheat of opportunity" which does not constitute a trick as it will fool no one with any knowledge of cards whatsoever magi or not as there is to much going on with the cards and is just to obvious.

Plese I am not saying this is a great magic trick or gambling cheat method. I am saying it is a cheat opportunity that can possibly arise and that is all. Seems like many here love to pick apart anything someone says and show how smart they are. While what he did was not much of a magic trick it definitely took some thought and skill. Of course now we will here from all those who will say how easy it is to do. But what we won't see is them doing it.
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Maitre D
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 00:41, acesover wrote:
All this depends on there not being a cut which must be offered.


Gentlemen, am I mistaken or is he really implying that a cut cannot be beat?

Good riddance.
splice
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:19, acesover wrote:
Oh yea ..there is something I see done all the time when playing cards..an individual takes trips and puts them on the deck then shuffles...seems like you guys have double standards if you think that is legit.


You've got your head deep up your ass if you think the only way to get a hold of desired cards is to cold cull by shuffling a deck face up. Those of us who know about these things understand the context under which the stacking demo takes place.

Quote:
All this depends on there not being a cut which must be offered.


Yeah, OK, you just lost all possible credibility you may have. We all know how cuts can be forced or undone, thank you very much, do not come again, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Quote:
Seems like many here love to pick apart anything someone says and show how smart they are.


Meanwhile in your effort to pick this one apart you only managed to show how much of a square you are. Funny how that works.
No. 92
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Quote:
On 2009-09-27 22:28, acesover wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-27 06:53, No. 92 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-26 21:23, acesover wrote:

Come on how many of you can really do it and have it work the first time? Give the guy a break.


Count out how many people have disagreed with you or jm. About that many.
We don't care for sub-par work and this is a good example of said work.


If you can do it post a vid and lets see you do it.

I am not saying it is great or even magic. It is a cheat move in cards. I also mentioned that it would fly under certain conditions and I know it could under the right conditions. Look back and read where I mentioned the conditions. Is it great magic, is it great card moves? NO to both. It is a a cheat move in cards. End of stroy. It is not a performance.


Your barking up the wrong tree, guy. You keep on blathering on about perfect conditions...what a load! Why would anyone use and therefore waste time practicing IN PLAIN ENGLISH; BAD TECHNIQUE!!! Especially when in order to use this BAD TECHNIQUE I need to wait for the utmost perfect conditions to use it in. Meanwhile the payoff could very well be bad because the move isn't even all that strong.

But let's just say for arguments sake that these perfect conditions that you speak of do come about. Guess what anyone with a brain would do??? A: not that garbage B: something that will actually get paid.

You seem to wanna keep digging yourself a very nice hole in the ground. How is it down there guy?
No. 92
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 00:41, acesover wrote:
Seems like many here love to pick apart anything someone says and show how smart they are.


Now hold on just a minute! That is not completely true. The real reason why we pick apart ignorant comments like yours isn't for the sake of feeling smart, it's really just to show how dumb you are!

Quote:
While what he did was not much of a magic trick it definitely took some thought and skill. Of course now we will here from all those who will say how easy it is to do. But what we won't see is them doing it.


Just keep on digging, hey when you get to china could you send up some lo mein?

Videos are scattered all over the thirty + pages in this section so I don't know what your bi***'n about. Maybe if you took the time to read anything here you might have seen them
or might have known how to bypass a cut,
or might have known skill when it bites you on the a**,
or might have just respected the opinions of well established members,
or...you getting the picture yet?

Sit down shut up and start taking notes guy.
acesover
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I honestly do not know what you guys are having a problem with. What exactly are you debating with me? Is there anything I said that is not true? I never said it was great or the guy is a fantastic knuckle buster with cards. I simply statetd tht it is a possible cheat opportunity .

To address the cut issue. Obviously the individuals that have said that a cut can be beat are correct. But I defy you to beat a cut in a card game where you hand the man on you right the deck of cards and he cuts themand completes the cut then you pick them of the table and begin to deal. In fact most of the individuals that cut in the games I play actually square the cards themselves before giving them back to the dealer...go ahead beat it and please put out a DVD because I will be the first in line to purchase it. And please don't tell me aboaut cutting to a crimp as some players acatually triple cut before giving the deck back. It just shows hot little you know and how much you THINK you know.

Splice thanks you for showing your ignorance and showing how crude you are by your language. It speaks volumes.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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[quote]On 2009-09-28 01:51, Maitre D wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-28 00:41, acesover wrote:
All this depends on there not being a cut which must be offered.


Gentlemen, am I mistaken or is he really implying that a cut cannot be beat?

Good riddance.

While I addressed the cut issue I wwoud like to comment on it directly. I defy you to beat a cut when offered to an individual and HE cuts the cards and possibly triple cuts them as done in many card games then hands them back to you to deal.

The only comment I like about your posot is the "Good riddance"? I just hope you live up to it.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
acesover
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 07:26, No. 92 wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-28 00:41, acesover wrote:
Seems like many here love to pick apart anything someone says and show how smart they are.


Now hold on just a minute! That is not completely true. The real reason why we pick apart ignorant comments like yours isn't for the sake of feeling smart, it's really just to show how dumb you are!

Quote:
While what he did was not much of a magic trick it definitely took some thought and skill. Of course now we will here from all those who will say how easy it is to do. But what we won't see is them doing it.


Just keep on digging, hey when you get to china could you send up some lo mein?

Videos are scattered all over the thirty + pages in this section so I don't know what your bi***'n about. Maybe if you took the time to read anything here you might have seen them
or might have known how to bypass a cut,
or might have known skill when it bites you on the a**,
or might have just respected the opinions of well established members,
or...you getting the picture yet?

Sit down shut up and start taking notes guy.


After reading your last post I just realized an important fact that I learned years ago and that is: do not debate with a stupid person as they know what what they speak of.

As I mentioned in my other post I defy you to offer an individual a cut and when that individual cuts or triple cuts the cards and hands them back to you, for you to have them in their original order before you deal.
If I were to agree with you. Then we would both be wrong. As of Apr 5, 2015 10:26 pm I have 880 posts. Used to have over 1,000
No. 92
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Are you slow or something?
AMcD
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There are many things I don't exactly understand here...

1) About culling

I suppose you're talking about my vid?. Of course, we don't often have the opportunity to get three good cards yet on top when we're passed the deck. That's why culling methods have been devised. When gathering the muck, you can just pick up 1 or 2 cards and add'em to the ones you add in your hand for instance. Or, after signaling with your accomplice, you can gather interesting cards "throwing" them cleverly in the muck. You can also use a previous slug your mate on your right has kept on the bottom the deal before. You can also cull one card or two while doing a first riffle. And so on.

In demos, we just go a litlle bit faster. We put the slug on top (or bottom) and we stack. My video was just to show to jmstrings how a standard shuffle should look like.

2) Cuts

They are thousands ways to bypass a cut. Crimps, breathers, slicks, etc. Of course, in case you're playing with paranoids triple cutting the deck every time, counting cards every deal and using face recognition tools after every 3 rounds (plus five real time cameras), it's gonna be tough to beat the game. Probably you'll have to use other weapons, like cold deck or team play. Or better, just find another game, easier to cheat.

acesover,

I've never seen guys triple cutting the deck. Of course, everything is possible. But as I said above, when the environment is too risky, you must change your way of doing. Nevertheless, moves are not the only way to cheat. Signaling, location play, collusion, marked cards, there are a plenty of ways to defeat even the most paranoid guys. And if you really think it's impossible, well, just play straight or leave.
stoneunhinged
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 09:40, AMcD wrote:

I've never seen guys triple cutting the deck.


I always triple cut the deck. Sometimes I also do a quick overhand shuffle, too.

Maybe this place has made me paranoid.
silverking
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On 2009-09-28 08:51, acesover wrote:
I honestly do not know what you guys are having a problem with.

That's the problem.
splice
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 08:51, acesover wrote:
But I defy you to beat a cut in a card game where you hand the man on you right the deck of cards and he cuts themand completes the cut then you pick them of the table and begin to deal. In fact most of the individuals that cut in the games I play actually square the cards themselves before giving them back to the dealer...go ahead beat it and please put out a DVD because I will be the first in line to purchase it. And please don't tell me aboaut cutting to a crimp as some players acatually triple cut before giving the deck back. It just shows hot little you know and how much you THINK you know.


I defy you to stack a deck or do anything in a game where everyone burns you every moment of the game, where every other player riffle shuffles and quadruple cuts after each shuffle and rubber band the deck to the cut card and insist the deck should be on the table at every moment and that the deck be covered by a case when not dealing and everybody keeps every card on the table hidden from sight and the deck is changed for a new deck on every deal and the new decks come directly from bicycle and are still in the shipping box with every signature and a security guard stands over the table, one over the decks, and one over the money, and the security guards are hired by an outside party with no stake in the game and who takes no cut.

Regardless, we're not concerned about whatever conditions you make up on the spot. What we're concerned about is standard card table procedure. One cut, to cut card, dealer replaces the cut. This is the standard. If you come across particular deviations which are commonplace in a certain game, you adapt. If everybody triple cuts and shuffles the cards and completes the cut before the dealer can touch the deck, you would have to be an idiot to insist on trying to stack.

You beat the weakest part of the game, you don't smash your head against the wall trying to beat the strongest part.

Quote:
Splice thanks you for showing your ignorance and showing how crude you are by your language. It speaks volumes.


Funnily enough, I don't care what you think of me, and I don't expect it'll make any difference in my life. If I want my ignorance pointed out to me, I can easily get in touch with people who are actually in a position to correct it.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 09:40, AMcD wrote:
There are many things I don't exactly understand here...

1) About culling

I suppose you're talking about my vid?. Of course, we don't often have the opportunity to get three good cards yet on top when we're passed the deck. That's why culling methods have been devised. When gathering the muck, you can just pick up 1 or 2 cards and add'em to the ones you add in your hand for instance. Or, after signaling with your accomplice, you can gather interesting cards "throwing" them cleverly in the muck. You can also use a previous slug your mate on your right has kept on the bottom the deal before. You can also cull one card or two while doing a first riffle. And so on.

In demos, we just go a litlle bit faster. We put the slug on top (or bottom) and we stack. My video was just to show to jmstrings how a standard shuffle should look like.

2) Cuts

They are thousands ways to bypass a cut. Crimps, breathers, slicks, etc. Of course, in case you're playing with paranoids triple cutting the deck every time, counting cards every deal and using face recognition tools after every 3 rounds (plus five real time cameras), it's gonna be tough to beat the game. Probably you'll have to use other weapons, like cold deck or team play. Or better, just find another game, easier to cheat.

acesover,

I've never seen guys triple cutting the deck. Of course, everything is possible. But as I said above, when the environment is too risky, you must change your way of doing. Nevertheless, moves are not the only way to cheat. Signaling, location play, collusion, marked cards, there are a plenty of ways to defeat even the most paranoid guys. And if you really think it's impossible, well, just play straight or leave.


OMG...Finally an intelligent post and probably from someone who is a card player and gambler.

I play poker twice month in A.C. Two nights each stay. I play poker 3 nights a week with approximately 40 different individuals. These games consist of both cash games and tournament format. Having said that there are 3 individuals that triple cut the deck all the time. I have been involved in gambling longer than many here have lived (over 45 years). That gambling has involved card games, book making, and dice along with owning 2 pool rooms. Does that make me an expert on cheating?...probably more so than most here as I have seen most methods. The individuals that cheat are not magicians they are card cheats. They have never put on a show or got paid for a gig. They cheat at cards for money, end of story.

Havinig said all of this I really feel that I am beating a dead horse here. All I was trying to do is tell you that the vid this individual posted could posssibly be used under certain circumstances to cheat. If you do not want to belileve that, that is your right. I never said it was a good performance or good sleight of hand. It is just another method of cheating.

Just to address the "crimp" when offerinig a cut. As I said some individuals double or triple cut which negate the crimp. But in a card game even if you use a crimp you had better start dealing when handed the cards back and not play with them which is necessary in order to utliize the crimp.

I believe this will be my last post on this thread.
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splice
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 10:23, acesover wrote:

Just to address the "crimp" when offerinig a cut. As I said some individuals double or triple cut which negate the crimp. But in a card game even if you use a crimp you had better start dealing when handed the cards back and not play with them which is necessary in order to utliize the crimp.



I ain't ever seen nor heard of any reason why anyone would need to toy with the deck after receiving it after a cut. The crimp's done its job. You'll know if it did or not after you deal the cards. It's not rocket science.
acesover
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Quote:
On 2009-09-28 10:33, splice wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-09-28 10:23, acesover wrote:

Just to address the "crimp" when offerinig a cut. As I said some individuals double or triple cut which negate the crimp. But in a card game even if you use a crimp you had better start dealing when handed the cards back and not play with them which is necessary in order to utliize the crimp.



I ain't ever seen nor heard of any reason why anyone would need to toy with the deck after receiving it after a cut. The crimp's done its job. You'll know if it did or not after you deal the cards. It's not rocket science.


OK not my last post.

When I mentioned usinig a crimp I did not mean cutting to the crimp. I meant that when the cards were cut you could find their original order with the crimp as when the top card would have a crimp such as a breather crimp so the original position could be found easily. I hope you know what I mean by this post as it gets confusing.
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splice
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That seems like a strange thing to do. Every time we talk about crimps here we talk about them in the context of forcing a cut. That's the standard usage.

Quote:
Havinig said all of this I really feel that I am beating a dead horse here. All I was trying to do is tell you that the vid this individual posted could posssibly be used under certain circumstances to cheat. If you do not want to belileve that, that is your right. I never said it was a good performance or good sleight of hand. It is just another method of cheating


Taking the deck below the table to rig the deck could also work under certain circumstances. That doesn't mean that video would pass muster here, or that any praise at all would be heaped on someone doing that.

I maintain that shuffling the cards face up at any time is a big mistake and something to be corrected as soon as possible, regardless of how incredibly soft a penny-ante game may be.
silverking
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Quote:

I maintain that shuffling the cards face up at any time is a big mistake and something to be corrected ........

Full circle.........this is exactly where the conversation should have ended back on page #1.

(Acesover, 'sup with repeatedly defending shuffling face up cards?.....guys are going to quit taking you seriously mate Smile )
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