I'm looking at a few effects in the general area of mentalism - spoon bending, telekinisis, reading a thought, divining one object from several. These will be presented in general shows, not in a gospel show. But my Christian friends will quite likely come see me perform.

How can I present effects like these without presenting that I'm using some kind of "mind power"? Some I can simply do and say nothing; others, though, need to have a plot of some kind.

What advice would y'all give?
Ed

If you use Paul Rohamy's Dream Prediction lite you could say, I had a dream last night about a trip that someone went on and I wrote it down...let's see if I was dreaming or if it was for real...

I've just started to use a few mentalism routines so I'm still new to it. I did learn that mentalism has everything to do with performance. If you perform it to look like you have real mind powers, your routine will show it. You can perform the routine like anything else you perform, and make it light, rather than dark and deep. I'd stay away from using any disclaimer. I'm sure your chrsitian friends know you well enough to know that you don't have supernatural powers, but will still enjoy the experience all the same.

Instead of saying things like, "I'm now going to read your mind" or, "I will now attempt to read your thoughts" etc, you could maybe say something like, "I will now make it appear as if I am actually getting inside your head and reading your thoughts" or, "What I am about to attempt to do may look like I am using real mind power. However, that would be too easy. Instead, I will attempt to make it appear like I have mind powers by...".

Just some idea's.

Demonstrate Mind Over Matter...Super Memory...Mental Manipulations...Mind Tricks...Mental Puzzle Solving...The Power Of A One On One Connection...and in your case...The Googly Eye

The first issue is to decide who you are as a performer. It is a bad plan to script a show based upon the fear that someone may see it and not like what you have done. If you want to perform mentalism then do it in a way that fits you and your show. If they are your friends they will understand. If, on the other hand, you have concerns about it then you will need to either not perform that style of magic or create an out, such as the dream idea.

Those are great suggestions Doug.

I don't know any of my friends who would be afraid I might actually be doing "mind things". But even the best have their days when something sticks sideways in the head ro the spirit and just won't stop nagging you - and I'd rather not contribute to it.

I did a birthday show with a bunch of church families present - later one of the mothers (who has known me for decades) says her small son was hearing the story of Moses and the magicians and said "You mean just like Mr. Ed does?" We all had a laugh about that one.

Still, if I can avoid a direct mention, I'd rather. "Now we see the Power of the Googly Eye!" has some potential!! Thanks Doug.

Ed

Drawing from a variety of similar expereinces over the last fifty years I would offer a slightly different perspective. Many people grounded an any organized religion do not fear that you may have 'strange powers'. They reject anything that requires them to questions their learned "faith" structure. Just as looking at a scantily clad female might lead one to think 'impure thoughts', magicians might lead one to question ingrained dogmatic teachings. Any thinking adult is always faced with questioning things 'believed' by infusion at an early age, and many return to some stone building every week to get their 'faith' bolstered. PArt of that indocrination is to avoid situations in which your particular brand of 'beleiving' is challenged.

The fact that magicians 'act out' or 'role play' doing "real magic" (also considered by some to be God's work)gives credence to the idea that there are concepts observed or recognized that defy either rational explanation or religious preaching. It is strange to me that parents can allow their kids to watch many TV shows without challenging the role models 'acted out', but will be disturbed by what a magician or mentalist does.

Such is life! but that doesn't require you to change anything you do as long as it is ethically consistent with your beliefs. In fact, doing anything in life based on a fear of what others may or may not think is silly -- certainly futile.
T

I am not attempting to constrain my life or my performance based on the fear of what others may think. It is instead a concern and care for them. Anyone who knows me is convinced that I am a goofball with barely enough mental faculty to put my pants on right - never mind having "special powers" that rise me above mere mortals! And 'most anyone who doesn't know me is welcome to come and ask.

There are two issues at stake, one spiritual and one parctical:

-- The spiritual: We have all been inundated in this world with the lies and blasphemy of a watered-down gospel mixed with pop psychology and pseudo science. Are there unexplained phenomina? Yes. Is it all demonic? No. Do I know what to do with all of it? Hah! I've been a Chrisitian for more than 30 years and I'm just now twigging to how much of God and salvation I don't know!!
Enter those whose faith is beginning, or going through a rough time. Getting pounded on day and night by the Accuser isn't fun. So you go out to have a good time and - wham! - here's a friend throwing one more thing on your plate that you're not in shape to process just yet.
There are days when that one impure thought won't leave me alone, and puts a damper on how I interact with my wife and my Jesus. So yes I avoid those situations as much as possible. I don't want to do that to someone else.

-- The practical: So someone come up and says, "I know you don't have real powers, but that's pretty freaky! I know it's a trick, but you made it seem so real and it's really bothering me. Can I ask how you did it?"
Someone I don't know and am not going to spend the next chunk of my life with in church is going to get a standard answer: "Go to the library and look in 793.8. Or for $150.00 plus shipping and handling, I can get you your very own with instructions!"
But someone from my church family that I see several times a week in and out of the building deserves something a little bit more. And now I'm stuck.

At least, these are my thoughts. I'd appreciate a Christian perspective, and suggestions on how not to get trapped here.

Ed

If the idea of mistakingly have people believe you possess true supernatural mental abilities bothers you then stop doing mentalism and perform mental magic instead.

I do not have the performing personality to pull of true feats of mentalism but enjoy presenting mental magic from time to time.

Ed, I would email Richard Osterlind who is a Christian and one of the top mentalist out there. Also watch some of his DVD's because the way he states things in his show would give you great examples.

As a practicing Christian for more than 60 years I can only suggest you "walk the talk," allowing your life to speak the Gospel. Performance magic can be a part of that, but you must handle the ethical/faith issues before the performance. If you are not prepared to answer these questions aforthought you should not do the effect. It's no different than taking your kids to a movie. If you are not prepared and excited about answering any questions that come up you should not go. There can be difficult questions but there should be no suprises. You have the chance as a magician to create suprises that can be answered -- the "awe and wonder part" rather than the "how to." The fact that you can control strange situations gives proof that all of life's problems can be solved through planning, integrity, accoutability, faith and mirth in whatever order you choose to place importance. You should be able to reach a point where you can say, "It is because I am a good Christian that I do magic tricks and make light of mentalism."

As a Christian I try to do my best in whatever I do.

I do not "make light" of mentalism or magic, but try to do the very best, mind-boggling material I can. That is my job.

I don't make any claims about anything. I just do it and that's that. I have written about this subject thoroughly in my Principles of Magic, but to simplify, it is as follows.

Magic is a creative art. It is the art of creating mystery. Mystery is doing the impossible. If there is a supernatural force involved, then it is not mystery as it is explained. If, however, the performer is acting without such forces and accomlishes the impossible, he has created mystery.

Mystery is something the human soul craves for the sake of mystery alone. Don't make it into something it isn't.

And be entertaining at all times.

Richard

Thank you Richard, I was hoping you would chime in...

I highly recommend his books, a very good read in theory. His DVD's are great too.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

It should be also noted that our friend Richard doesn't perform Gospel Magic "per-say". At least not that I know of. I am positive that he is a great steward for God who performs in a secular enviroment, not to evangelize, but to entertain and mystify. This venue has surely given Richard opportunities to witness about his faith to others when God opens the door.

I also like the difference that Payne presented. Mentalism and mental magic. My biggest problem with performing mentalism in a church or evangelically is that to pull it off, the performance has to be powerfully convincing. (That's my impression anyways) And to make light of the effect or the performance is not fair to those who either created the effect, or those who perform it.

I have incorporated a few mental tricks into my show and street evangelizing, but thanks to Payne's observance of the difference between mental magic and mentalism I can say that what I perform would fit more under mental magic than mentalism.

Cheers All!

"make light of" -- poor choice of words I guess. I did not mean to "belittle or disparage" any effect or approach, but to "treat lightly" or "to illuminate," as opposed to treating a subject as serious (deep and profound)-- and only in reference to mental magic.

It is because mental effects risk running against ingrained beliefs of a spiritual nature that a magician should offer such effects as demonstrations of one acting as a mentalist rather then 'being a mentalist'. If one presents a mental demonstration in a serious vein they are attempting to demonstrate 'supernatural' powers. I always present such effects in a 'light' vein as pure entertainment, and am quick to "cast light upon" those who would use magic tricks as fraudulent demonstrations of of personal power.

We are all "more than able" than others in some ways, and "less than able" in others. There is nothing wrong with demonstrating heightened empathy or enhanced memory skills either. These are neither magic tricks nor mental tricks, just a demonstration of practiced skill like playing the piano. Yet, you can chose to disguise this talent as either a magic trick or a mentalism demonstration -- that being an ethical issue that one should not take lightly ;-)

Funsway,

I'm sorry, but I think you are missing the point entirely. Your statement, "If one presents a mental demonstration in a serious vein they are attempting to demonstrate 'supernatural' powers." is, I feel, entirely wrong.

If you say you are using supernatural powers, then yes, you are a liar. But if you don't say you are, but rather just do the effect, then why are you supposing the mentalist guilty of anything?

Perhaps it is the idea that every mentalism performance must be clothed in certain "language" that has become fashionable lately. But I never did that and I started in this business about 40 years ago.

And why does no one include magic in this same category? Is it because so much magic has become so mundane that no one takes it seriously anyway? Think of great magicians of the past that we all look up to ... Blackstone, Thurston, Dante, Houdini, etc. Did these giants portray their magic as light entertainment or rather as great feats of mystery? That is the appeal.

Any art ought to have "power" whether it be music, literature, art or whatever. It needs to be "moving" in some way.

I would not expect a great pianist to play something "simple" just because the audience were a Christian one. I do perform in Church and at events that are "Christian" events and I don't lighten up my show one bit.

Don't be afraid of creating mystery! Don't be afraid of doing too good a job.

You are supposed to be a magician ... so be one!

Richard

I had to edit my post because Richard posted before my post, and my post just puts another foot in my mouth.

Richard says it best in my opinion. Some mentalist effects I just won't perform because it may be questionable in some places I go. Richard is able to do what he does because he's GREAT at it. I can watch Richard perform and just enjoy the mystery of it without thinking that he has mental powers. I can't do that, and I would not be giving certain effects their due respect.

Dan,

I'm not picking on you or on funsway. So sorry if it seems that way.

I have always felt that magic, as a whole, has lost a lot of what made it so great in years gone by. I certainly understand the need for laughter and just plain fun, but that is only part of an artistic experience. Magic's main goal is "mystery" and it is very rarely that I see such great "mystery" that people are really moved.

I love to feel that! I love to see things that baffle me to the point that I can hardly speak! It is a wonderful feeling and is the main distinction between magic and every other art.

I have searched my heart on this subject. When I first became a Christian, I actually sold all of my equipment and vowed never to perform again. This was do to advice given to me by others.

Now I know better. I understand just what I am doing and I know my God would have me do what I do as good as I can possibly do it. My experience has shown me that when people respect me as a performer, they also respect and pay attention to me when I tell them that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, died for the sins of the world and is the Way to our eternal salvation.

Richard

Richard,

I was offering what is right for me, so I can hardly be 'wrong'. Different points of view are what make a forum work.

I had many experience early on (1960's) with what was then considered paranormal, including Helsromism as taught to me by Arnold Furst. On occasion I could feel a very palpable fear building within the audience, and a relinquishing to me a level of control I do not desire. Therefore, I do mental magic only under circumstances of my choosing, and never by demand. My ethical choice.

My caution was given to one expressing concern over ethical considerations. Everyone can take it or leave it as they may. There is no 'right' or 'wrong' in this. If he has doubts -- he should not do it!

You obviously have no doubts and are comfortable with your approach. Terrific! That makes you 'right' only for yourself. Each performer must make his own ethical decisions here. My advice is that each must make such decision before the performance -- 'during' is too late.

I am 'supposed' to be a vital person first, and a magician second. As I discovered that I have more empathic acuity than most, and other innate skills that some would consider paranormal, I chose to use those 'powers' to help people make difficult decisions, heal wounded spirits and provide hospice care. As a business consultant I assisted more than 24,000 business owners make tough decisions for their futures -- often by using magic tricks and even mentalism tricks as part of my presentation. (yes, professional salepeople track such things).

I perform magic and mentalism for entertainment only rarely, and never for pay. You have chosen a different path. For you, your agruments are pursuasive and consistent -- they will help others make the right choice for themselves.

I would just ask, of you and others "creating mystery" -- after each show can you ask yourself, "What did I learn from this experience that will help me be a better person tomorrow?" That is power.