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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The little darlings » » UK Law on performing for Children (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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James Peters
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Romford, UK
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I have just been asked whether I have a full disclosure from the criminal records bureau by a Town Council. Basically I'm going to do a kids birthday party for a friend's child, in one of their smaller venues,

Fortunately I've got the document they want, as I help run a children's charity.

But I was wondering, is it normal for people to request this kind of thing? And is it law that you have to have it, or just advisable?

Thanks,

James.
Dennis Michael
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Southern, NJ
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Unless this is something new, I haven't heard of this requirement in the US.
Dennis Michael
James Peters
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Romford, UK
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Den,

I'm in the UK. Don't know about the US!

James.
NJJ
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I've had this before. It can be a bit of an invasion of privacy so make sure you get a non disclosure form from the client so that they don't spread around the paperwork.
Emazdad
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Plymouth UK
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I've only been asked a couple of times whether I've been checked out, and I tell them no, and I wouldn't know how to go about it. I give them a list of other playgroups and schools I've worked for and tell them they are free to contact them for references.

One came back and booked me, the other didn't. I didn't lose any sleep over it as it's their loss if they don't book me. I did ask at the local cop shop about it once and they didn't have a clue how to do it either. So until it becomes law I'm not going to bother getting it done.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
p.b.jones
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Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
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HI,
I am in the UK. Legally there is no requirement for entertainers to hold/provide a disclosure form. However, hospitals, councils, etc. are starting to ask and will not use you if you do not provide this, much as they do with public liability insurance. If you get one, just in case so to speak as I have, then pay the extra and have enhanced disclosure. This is something asked for more and more.

Emazdad, Phone the nick and ask for the address of the police data control for the area. Phone them and they will send the forms. I think its £10.00 for standard disclosure and £12.00 for enhanced. The standard gives just police records of offences. Enhanced gives police records of, convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings. plus anything bad on file from the
Dept for Education and Skills, Department of Health and other relevant info.

Hope this helps
Phillip
mslj
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Bradford, England
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The enhanced is going up to £27. The Criminal Records Bureau have a web site that will give you more information. At the moment the waiting period is about 2-3 months.

In my experience more statutory bodies - health and social services - are asking for evidence of a CRB check. It isn't law for entertainers to have a CRB check, in fact I don't think it is law for any organisation to have a check. I work within childcare however, and it's part of the recruitment process to have evidence of a check.

So by law, you don't need one to perform for children. However, it may be regarded as good practice by some bookers.
p.b.jones
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Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
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HI,
I suppose it depends on where you live. I have only had the enhanced version for about a month. It took about 2 weeks and I did not apply direct or pay for it myself. A charitable organisation for whom I do work in hospitals paid.
Phillip
Mark Andrews
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Coventry in the UK
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I'm glad that this came up, as only last Friday a school asked if I had been "Police Checked".

I have looked into this and contacted the Criminal Records Bureau via their website.

What we as entertainers require to have on hand, should we be asked as I or others have, is known as Subject Access.

This is obtained for a fee usually £10.00, from your local Police Authority.

The Criminal Records Check that is undertaken by the Criminal Records Bureau is for those who are employed on a full time basis by say the local Council etc. In this case they will give you there CRB Disclosure number which you will need to provide to the CRB, who in turn send the required info on to the employer.

A copy of your personal Subject Access can be provided when it is requested, much like a copy of Public Liability Insurance Certificate.

Hope this helps clarify the matter.

Regards

Mark Andrews

http://www.mark-andrews.ukf.net
James Peters
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Romford, UK
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Mark; Is there a link available to the forms for this?
Thanks,

James.
p.b.jones
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Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
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Hi Mark,
You will find that more and more authorities want a full disclosure now. The £10.00 standard disclosure is insufficient in many instances.
Phillip
harris
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Harris Deutsch
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The SYM (Youth of the Society of American Magicians) Leaders are now required to have a background check. I am not sure when that started. It does make sense.

As someone that has worked in the Prison (really worked there, not as an inmate - though one of the best 3 card monte routines was shown to me by an inmate.) and worked in hospitals, I have gone through several background checks.

I was recently approached by a federal program to do some of my Doctor of Laughology Programs, and will probably go through another check. As I recall the forms mention the prohibition of further disclosure.

In the USA, we have HIPPA in the Hospital and Mental Health Fields. Confidentiallity is very important and of course a federal
law.

In fact I just had to go to another in-service training on the topic.

Harris Deutsch
Laughologist and Nearly Normal Magician
http://www.nearlynormalmagic.com

Harris Deutsch
Harris Deutsch aka dr laugh
drlaugh4u@gmail.com
music, magic and marvelous toys
http://magician.org/member/drlaugh4u
Mark Andrews
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Coventry in the UK
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Philip

Those wishing to have full disclosure on you, must supply you with their CRB Registration number. Once you have this you can then contact the CRB and upon payment the records will then be sent to the organisation wishing to have clearance on you.

The CRB will not provide the info for us to keep on file without first having a registration number of those wanting this info.

When I called them last week and explained that I was a Children's Entertainer, they said that my call was not uncommon and they advise individuals such as ourselves to contact our local Police Authority and apply for Subject Access.

Having checked this out with three of the local authortites I regularly work for in the year, they all more all less said that personally I had no need to supply them with such info but should they ever need it, then yes Subject Access from the Police would be fine.

I guess the requirements vary from organisation to organisation and from authority to authority. My own experience is that the smaller authorities tend to work to the letter. Where as larger authorities (and I work for the largest local authority in the UK) are less strict in following guidelines.

A good example is Public Liability Insurance. One local council I work for (a small one at that) requires me to have a minimum of £5 million Public Liability Insurance. Whereas others are satisfied with a minimum of £1 million.

Message for James Peters

James

As you live in the Essex area, you need to contact Essex Police Force and ask for Subject Access.

The link for this on their website is http://www.essex.police.uk/pages/contact/c_data.htm
James Peters
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Romford, UK
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Mark,

Thanks for the link.

James.
kaznzak
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In Australia (or at least in my state of New South Wales), the law requires that anyone emplyed in a position which may bring them into contact with children has to undergo a "working with children" check which I believe looks to prior convictions for pedophlia, sexual assault and such. I am not sure that it reveals all criminal convictions, only those relevant to children. I believe it is a very simple and cheap process, although I haven't done it personally.

We do about 70% of our work through an agent and she got ours when we started. No one has ever asked us for it in our private jobs, even for work at pre-schools and such.
I know it is a hassle, but I guess in this case it is worth it, as we have had quite a few cases of pedophiles who specifically went into jobs with a lot of child contact.
Kaz
Peter Marucci
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Sounds like yet another example of Big Brother's unwanted bureaucrats sticking their governmental noses in where they have no business!

If it's not a requirement by law, tell them to get stuffed!

And, if it IS a requirement by law, you should be working to get the law changed!

(Half a century ago, we decried "godless Russia" for taking children as young as two years old away from parents during the day and putting them in state-run centres.
(Today, we call it "day care" and DEMAND that the government provide it!)
p.b.jones
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Milford Haven. Pembrokeshire wales U.K.
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Hi Peter,
Actually I would like to see it become law. There have been many pedophile cases here in the U.K, where the pedophile had been prosecuted before for child offences, but still managed to get employment with vulnerable children.

I can think of at least one magician (that was well known) who was done for child offences.

Phillip
Emazdad
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Plymouth UK
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I agree Phil, but in an ideal world anyone who has done nasty evil stuff to kids would be locked away somewhere for life. Preferably kept in a constant state of severe pain.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
Peter Marucci
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Phil,
Yes, AFTER the offence.
The kind of regulation referred to here is a form of punishment BEFORE an offence has occurred; punishment for what a person MIGHT do.
AKA: Thought police!
Well, I suppose so; Orwell DID set Nineteen Eighty-Four in Britain!
Smile
Emazdad
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Plymouth UK
1954 Posts

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Hi Peter, When dealing with kids, better safe than sorry is the best way. The human rights of the kids and victims should always come before a convicted sick pedophile. As a parent I would certainly want to ensure that anyone near my kids was not a pervert, and when they do it once, they should not be given a second chance. If you abuse kids you give up the right to be treated like normal people. There's no bigger crime in my book than the theft of a childs innocence.
Yours Funfully
Clive "Emazdad" Hemsley
www.emazdad.com

"Magic is a secret, without the secret there is no magic"

Remember there are only 3 types of people in the world, those that can count and those that can't.
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