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Ryan Price Special user winnipeg, MB, Canada 641 Posts |
Hello All,
This may seem like an odd question. I was curious if there is a way in increasing the percentage of female offspring . I would like to potentially solve any fighting issues. I know in some animals if the eggs are kept at a certain temperature they are more likely to produce males or females. I also have another question in regards to offspring. What is the average percentage of eggs laid that make it to maturity. Since having my pair I have allowed them to keep three sets of eggs. I only have one full grown male out of it. The last set both eggs hatched and they lived for about three days. Is this average or should I be doing something different. Thanks all for your continued guidance. |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Ryan, when female doves are born, they already have a certain number of eggs and the sex is predetermined. When thy lay those eggs, it all depends on which comes out first, the male or the female. You can't do anything about that.
I think determining percentages is almost impossible. There are so many factors to consider. Genes, habitat, how you take care of them all play a part in their growth. In my career, my breeders have laid close to 300 eggs. I've only lost 4 after birth do to unkown causes and I put 3 of them to sleep myself because of deformities efffecting their health. I've only had 6 or 7 never hatch at all. Of course I've had eggs laid by female pairs which will never hatch. Some female doves never lay eggs. I don't know what to tell you to do differently as I don't know what you do now. It may be nothing that you are doing and just the way it is with your breeders.
Where the magic begins
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James Adamson Special user Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL 945 Posts |
Wow, Dave!
I never knew that the sex was predetermined! I had assumed that it was just standard genetic male/female like humans (time/temperature)and/or Mendel's famous peas & veggies. I had ask a similar question before and that answer never came up, you must have missed it.
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
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JamesTong Eternal Order Malaysia 11213 Posts |
Thanks, Dave. This info is really enlightening to me too.
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Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
I need to explain this a little better. I was answering from my memory. Female doves are born with an many as 500 eggs. Some are female and some are male. The reproduction apparatus in the male is hidden inside the body and that is why we cannot tell the sex by simply looking at the bird. During mating, the male apparatus does deposit it's fluid into the female. This may occur several times. As the eggs pass through the female, they come in contact with that fluid and that is what determines the sex.
In most mammals, the female carries the xx chromosone and male carries the xy chromosone. In doves, it is the opposite. The male carries the zz chromosone and female carries the zw chromosone. Temperature, climate etc have nothing to do with which chromosones get mixed. So, while the eggs have a predetermined gender, it can be changed depending on what happens as it's being laid.
Where the magic begins
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Ryan Price Special user winnipeg, MB, Canada 641 Posts |
Thanks for the info Dave. If there is no way of helping to determine sex, what do most of you do with your males? As I originally mentioned I would like have more females to hopefully prevent fighting.
Thanks |
Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
There are magicians who believe that the females make better stage animals. I'm not ready to join them in that as being a total fact but my experience has also been that more females made better stage animals than males. I will also have to add that my best dove ever was a male!
Space is the best solution to fighting. When that is not an option, caging in mated pairs is better. Less hours of daylight will also reduce both egg laying and fighting. (Killing the night light might help.) Enjoy your dove magic. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Ryan, if your goal is simply to reduce fighting, Bob's suggestions are the way to go. You simply cannot have two adult male doves in the same cage.
Performance wise, like Bob, one of my best birds is a male. It all comes down to training. You can control a male just as well as a female. It just takes time to train.
Where the magic begins
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Regan Inner circle U.S.A. 5726 Posts |
I plan on keeping my doves in pairs but I worry about transporting them to a show. Can it be a problem to transport them all to and from shows in the same carrier?
Regan
Mister Mystery
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Regan,
First problem is keeping pairs together later. You can buy plastic leg bands with numbers. Get two sets with the same numbers. Give both birds in the pair the same number. For a while I tried to put all bands on the right leg for one sex and the left leg for the other. (I gave up when I learned how often I was wrong.) For just a couple of hours there is usually no problem. Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-05 09:48, Regan wrote: To avoid this problem, we only take our females to shows. Our experience is that they behave fine together in the carrier and travel cage. The real bonus though, is since a lot of our shows involve staying overnight in a hotel or other room, the females don't make much, if any noise. |
Dave Scribner Assistant Manager Lake Hopatcong, NJ 4849 Posts |
Regan, the fighting is do to territorial issues. One male dove will own the cage and introducing a new one will cause problems. In transit, you birds are in neutral territory and will ussually get a long. You can even put them together in a cage of dove to bunny etc and there won't be a problem.
As RJE said though, if you are staying overnight somewhere, keeping them together could be a problem. When I travel, since I use both males and females, I take two cages with me.
Where the magic begins
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Ryan Price Special user winnipeg, MB, Canada 641 Posts |
Here in lies my concern. Since I do plan on eventually having an act using 4 birds or more I would like to have them mostly to be female to prevent any issue when transport or in the display box/final apparatus. As such I would like to have my one breeding pair which I currently have and the rest being in the show with maybe one male. Obviously I would like as few cages as possible to house all these birds. Should I give away most of the males to a pet shop?
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RJE Inner circle 1848 Posts |
Give them away or keep them.
We have males for each of our females and keep them housed in pairs at home. It is just that we only take the females to do shows. The boys stay home. Sometimes we let them hatch their young and then give away birds. Mostly, we just remove the eggs as they are laid. Cages for housing need not be a problem. We had a rabbit farm make ours to spec at a very reasonable cost (much cheaper than a pet store). They are approximately 4' x 2' x 2' with a solid divider in the centre making them into 2 separate cages 2' x 2' x2'. Stack 2 of these and you have 8 birds, including your 4 females. The cages are all metal with slide out trays for cleaning and nice large doors. |
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