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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Not very magical, still... » » Blackface (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom Bartlett
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Quote:
On 2009-10-10 13:42, ed rhodes wrote:
I am not offended by what other people are offended by. I am offended by what offends me.

I thought the Jackson thing was highly offensive, at the same time, there's a video out there of a Japanese variety show where a Japanese man, in blackface is supposed to be Barrack Obama giving his famous catch phrase "Change!" He suddenly starts doing a magic act with the catch phrase as his "magic word."

Was I offended? No. Was it funny? I think so.

I try to take each case on an individual basis and not judge what's offensive by "what offends the group around me."
Yes the black people in your story were so predisposed in their thinking that a doctor could be only white. Your story is exemplarily of prejudice or being predisposed in ones thinking but the definition of the word has morphed into something much different. In our world today it is now associated with criminal profiling. So much so that our law enforcement has a hard time doing their job without being labeled racist.

There is a great dissimilarity between politically correct and being insulting. I have seen the Obama imitator/magician skit and did not see it as black face at all. They did not make Obama look like a negative stereotypical black male and that is why it worked. If it had been Jimmy Cater he would have had red hair buck teeth and freckles so people would know it was Carter.
Our friends don't have to agree with me about everything and some that I hold very dear don't have to agree about anything, except where we are going to meet them for dinner.
rossmacrae
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Take our slavery-shamed past out of the equation and it's still racist.

Aren't you equally ashamed when amateurs use "chinky chinaman" patter straight out of Tarbell without even a thought of changing it? Same principle.

I was watching a documentary about oldtime medicine-show performers gathering to recreate the old days one last time, and there sat a nice guy, a good performer, blacking up to play his old "Toby" character again, while his wife told of his last few shows ... seems that he came out in blackface and the audience was more than half made up of black locals, all of whom walked out when they saw the blackface. And she said "he never meant anything bad by it." But it doesn't matter if you don't mean anything bad by it, it's lampooning someone's rube habits strictly on the basis of their race (or else why black up?)
MagicSanta
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Why can't the other countries, dozens of them, have some slavery shame?

Also what do you mean by 'our'? For the most part slave trade stopped prior to the revolutionary war and thus the USA was not a big importer of slaves, hate to ruin your day. My family never owned slaves, most Southerners never owned slaves, not even close, even when slaves were used. Who uses the chinaman scripting out of Tarbell? I'd like a name dang it. Mellow out and don't worry about the 'shame' that you nor anyone else alive here carries.
Steve_Mollett
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When I was a kid in Southern Cal (I'm 52), Amos & Andy was still running in syndication and The Jack Benny Show was still big (featuring Rochester).
Not 'blackface,' but definitely the 'comic black' stereotypes.
Author of: GARROTE ESCAPES
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irossall
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I was offended when Whoopi Goldberg played a white man in The Associate.
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Josh Riel
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Quote:
On 2009-10-11 03:49, MagicSanta wrote:
Why can't the other countries, dozens of them, have some slavery shame?

Also what do you mean by 'our'? For the most part slave trade stopped prior to the revolutionary war and thus the USA was not a big importer of slaves, hate to ruin your day. My family never owned slaves, most Southerners never owned slaves, not even close, even when slaves were used. Who uses the chinaman scripting out of Tarbell? I'd like a name dang it. Mellow out and don't worry about the 'shame' that you nor anyone else alive here carries.


You and I tend to think alike here (And only here I disagree with everything you have ever said or even thought otherwise, although since I am so brilliant you almost certainly hang on my every word)... where was I?

Right, I had a discussion with a relative who turns out to be black (I do not see people in terms of color so I didn't know until he told me), his point was that while slavery has not been around in living memory, segregation has. There are many people who are alive who were alive during that time.

When black folk were forced to use different bathrooms, could not eat at many diners etc. That was ******** that the white guys in general had a lot to do with. Slavery is not the only relevant issue.

So while we may agree, we are also looking at it from the perspective of the ample white guy who has not had to deal with a general dislike by white people... well at least for different reasons.
Magic is doing improbable things with odd items that, under normal circumstances, would be unnessecary and quite often undesirable.
Doug Higley
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For the benefit ofc those outside the USA...that stuff was REGIONAL specific to certain States in the South East. That segragation crap didn't go on in the majority of United States.
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MagicSanta
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See, I agree with Josh.

Oh man, when I was a kid my family was chased out of Mississippi because my fathers accent wasn't liked (he's from Brooklyn and sounds like it). There absolutely was a seperation in races, my school had two black kids, girls, who were the daughters of the custodian. When I played with one of them I remember a girl in my class, first grade, saying "you play with n*gers?", when I told her I liked the black girl better than here you'd thought I slapped someone. My father became a soccer coach after seeing me in a basketball league (my total poins scored: zero) and seeing the black kids were left out. So our team, the Zodiacs, had me and the neighbor kid as the only white kids and the rest of the team was black kids and one handicapped kid, this was in the late 60's, the only games we won was when the other team refused to play us (it should be noted my dad knew nothing about soccer, still doesn't). To top it off when we moved he sold the house to a black family! The first in the Chapel Hill part of Decatur Georgia. Now it is a major ghetto but hey, dad tried. Basically I was never subjected to negative stereotypes of any group in my house growing up. I moved back to California and lived in a racially mixed area and have always had friends of all races and cultures. I guess it it one of those things that since I was never really around some of the negative aspects others deal with daily I find it hard to relate to. I do support making fun of Michael Jackson is cool though.
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2009-10-11 13:11, Doug Higley wrote:
For the benefit ofc those outside the USA...that stuff was REGIONAL specific to certain States in the South East. That segragation crap didn't go on in the majority of United States.


Not exactly. Though not as wide spread as in the Southern states, segregation existed in the North as well as the West Coast.

Brown vs. Board of Education: 1951 Kansas The Topeka Kansas school board maintained separate elementary schools divided along racial lines.

In the Northern states as well California, after the great migration, blacks were forced into their own subdivisions, and denied acceptance into the labor unions and were denied equal pay. In New York City, blacks were forbidden from trying on clothing in some major department stores and denied dining in some of the more trendier restaurants. Other Northern cities, forced blacks to sit in black only sections of theaters and Dr. Martin Luther King marched in Chicago. There are also numerous accounts of racially motivated violence against blacks in Northern and West Coast cities.

Peace.
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MagicSanta
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I'd say racism is worse outside of the South, clearly. I think the reason is that blacks and whites have actually been together for a few hundred years in the South while the great migration to the rest of the country is just over 100 years old. You virtually never hear, not in the last 30 years or so, about race violence in the South but you certainly do in places like Los Angeles, Denver, Portland, and the North East.
NJJ
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Do you think there is a difference between 'blackface' and using make up to play a black person?

I.e. Robert Downey Jr's black make up was clearly not the same as monotone, black as night, boot polish of the traditional blackface.
Jonathan Townsend
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The word you want is not "tolerance" which presumes the others somehow inferior but "acceptance" which presumes only that they are other than you.

:(

Chinese linking rings, rice bowls (don't go there) ... and calling our audiences "laymen" as if we were clerics... friggen bigotry is still with us.
...to all the coins I've dropped here
Dreadnought
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Quote:
On 2009-10-11 18:17, MagicSanta wrote:
I'd say racism is worse outside of the South, clearly. I think the reason is that blacks and whites have actually been together for a few hundred years in the South while the great migration to the rest of the country is just over 100 years old. You virtually never hear, not in the last 30 years or so, about race violence in the South but you certainly do in places like Los Angeles, Denver, Portland, and the North East.


Oh definitely. In the South, racisim and segregation were out front for everyone to see. I'm not condoning it or saying it is right, but while the rest of the country, from California to New York were watching and condemning the actions of Alabama governor George Wallace and the events unfolding in the other Southern states, they in true hypocritical form, continued their segregationist ways in secret.

Peace.
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MagicSanta
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They have to go back to Wallace (who changed his tune in what, 1973?) to find a good example. Southerners, which are being dilluted now with the influx of people from other states moving there, pretty much are a mellow people. The only true hard core racist I knew was from Detroit and since he was beaten by the group he hated every day growing up there was no hope to reverse his thinking. Good thing he was a lil' guy and not able to deliver the beatings he wanted to give.
landmark
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Quote:
On 2009-10-11 13:11, Doug Higley wrote:
For the benefit ofc those outside the USA...that stuff was REGIONAL specific to certain States in the South East. That segragation crap didn't go on in the majority of United States.

Hilarious!
Every major US city has been segregated by neighborhood and housing for many many years. Anyone who has gone to public schools knows that from experience.
MagicSanta
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True, my highschool was almost all Asian, I was so oppressed.
absoulute
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I wonder if the other judges mentioned the fact the Harry appeared in blackface himself on a MadTV skit?
Since we can never hope to understand why we are here, if there's anything to understand, the individual should choose a goal and pursue it wholeheartedly, despite the certainty of death and the meaninglessness of action. - Martin Heidegger
MagicSanta
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Ewwwwww.... one problem, he was playing a Southern style preacher but he isn't exactly in black face. I think one can say he was using stereotypical, and often accurate (you knows it) dialect at times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooKaCbMvaZ0
absoulute
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I think that is largely debateable. I would think for someone so 'sensitive' to this issue, he would have made a better decision on this skit.
Since we can never hope to understand why we are here, if there's anything to understand, the individual should choose a goal and pursue it wholeheartedly, despite the certainty of death and the meaninglessness of action. - Martin Heidegger
absoulute
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And being from the south I don't hear a whole lot of this dialect that he is using at all. Just my opinion though.
Since we can never hope to understand why we are here, if there's anything to understand, the individual should choose a goal and pursue it wholeheartedly, despite the certainty of death and the meaninglessness of action. - Martin Heidegger
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