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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Where do you buy your magic? (14 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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daffydoug
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I believe that. but one time I spoke on the phone to an inventor who has marketed a gimmicked deck...(I won't say who it was) anyway, he told me that the sales from that deck basically built his home.

He must have been full of it.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Wizard of Oz
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Or he has a very small home...

Hey, who am I to say? But unless you are mass-marketing on TV, I can't imagine a big enough marketplace to make a lot of money on something so small.
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daffydoug
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He had it offered in a famous magic catalog that distributes internationally. Still, I have my doubts, too.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
MagicLaw
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Recently, I've been acquiring most of my items through auctions or vintage magic dealers. Here are some of my regular dealers/manufacturers that have been getting my business:

Alan Warner
Collectors' Workshop/Viking Magic
Five of Hearts (Colin Rose)
KT Magic (auction site)
Ron Alessi's International Magic Auction
Magic Wagon
The Trickery
and of course...eBay!

Z-wood Magic (Kent Bergmann)
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." -- Lady Margaret Thatcher
Rainboguy
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At least once in his/her lifetime, in my humble opinion, every serious magician should make the pilgrimmage to Colon Michigan to Abbott's Magic Company during their magic get-together, and buy at least one Abbott's-made prop.

If you do, you will be in for a REAL magic experience, trust me!

Nothing and no place like Abbott's in Colon during the get-together!...It's special!!!
Mystical Matthew
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I've only ever had a major issue with one magic shop. I won't say who they are because I'm not prepared to deal with the drama that will ensue. Other folks seem to have good luck with them, so whatever.

I recently placed my first order with Elmwood. It was a VERY positive experience. They have a great selection, great shipping, and since I live in the midwest my items arrive faster. I think they're going to become my new dealer of choice. I like that their website reflects their actual inventory.

Other dealers that I've had good experiences with are Hocus Pocus, Daytona, Bob Kohler, and Peter Loughran.

If you're ever in Columbus check out the Be Amazing Magic Shop. Larry has a nice selection of DVD's, Books, and Close-UP.
Bluzzmagic
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The majority of my purchases have been made at MJM and Penguin, and I have always been pleased with their prices and prompt shipping.

I also have bought from Outlaw Effects several times, as well as directly from Simon Aronson, Daryl, Joe Mogar, and Michael Ammar.......(and I am sure some others who escape memory). Speaking of memory, I am hoping to buy something of Harry Lorayne's in the near future.
"Lying with his eyes while his hands are busy working overtime." J. Lennon & P. McCartney
mikenewman
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Yes, the Harry Lorayne site is great if you want to get an autographed copy of his books.

I am also now a Madhatter fan. Bill and I discussed my issues, and has totally redeemed my thoughts...

Madhatter did ship my DVD SUPER FAST!

And as for the knock-offs, he sells both the real deal and the knock-off. And in reality (And I agree 100%), if he doesn't sell them, the next guy will (and does).

This is really no different than buying "Fruit Rings" cereal, or "CVS Baby Powder", or "fill in the blank ___Laptop".

ANd the great thing about living here in the U.S.A., is if you do or don't like the knock-offs, then you don't have to buy them!

Thanks for reading; and I apoligize to Madhatter for my "rant" and for going off topic.

Thanks,

mike
Wizard of Oz
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Here's a little site to peruse Mike...
http://magicfakers.blogspot.com

In today's world, with today's problems, it's pretty trivial. But if you're a magic creator, with perhaps modest or average means to enforce the security of her or his inventions...who put themselves on the line with a new product...it's really quite sad. The lazy, low-life, opportunistic, petty hoodlums who copy these original creations, can do so because they make money from short-sighted buyers who are looking for an easy fix. Original magic creation will disappear if at the very least, the creators' initial costs can't be recouped. Knock-offs are happening sooner and sooner. Now, we're already seeing knock-offs competing with relatively new product releases. Really? Are we all that desperate for cheap magic?

We are hurting ourselves by supporting knock-off makers. Okay Mike. I sort of see your point about shops carrying both. I want magic dealers to survive too. But please. I implore all of us to save our pennies and buy from the creators. We're not talking big-time American commerce here people. We're talking small-time, cottage industry manufacturing. So in this case, we have to think small to think big. We'll all win out with a bit of patience.
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Markymark
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Exactly! Mike there really is a difference between breakfast cereals and a creator
inventing.But yes,you do have the freedom living in the great U.S.A to make sure all of our jobs go abroad!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
mikenewman
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Gentleman,
I agree with you both, and wish we weren't having this conversation...
Great site BTW. But, may encourage those who are cheap and don't care about supporting the originals. I still won't buy the knock-offs as I just can't support it.

And yes, there is a difference between cereal and a creator. However, from who's perspective? I agree with you in that there is a difference.
But a majority of the buyers don't care. They see the same product but cheaper price. Although WE know:

1. Product will be cheaper in quality
2. It hurts the originator who is not a Walmart, but a hard working American, Canadian, Mexican, etc. (or any countryman).

Hate to say it, but the jobs are already going abroad, and fast! Look at the auto industry. I use to be one who always "Bought American" no matter what. Well, I was sick and tired of putting blood, sweat, and tears (and way too much $$$$) into repeatedly fixing our piece of $h$t Venture Mini-van (I work on my own vehicles, so it was MY blood, sweat and tears). We recently bought a Honda Odyssey and needless to say, I don't need "Kleenex" any more Smile sorry... couldn't resist. But, American cars are crap. I know, I know. Honda has many recalls as well. BUT, they were the ones made here in the USA! ALL manufactures have recalls. So, I am talking about overall quality. Every tome I go to Europe, Korea, etc., I am amazed at how far more advanced they are than us. And to think, we invented the car!
Where do you get your car worked on? A private, solo mechanic? Or Sears, Midas, etc.?

That was way off topic, but does fit the jobs part...

The magic shops that refuse to conform to reality, are going to go away. Not saying they need to carry knock-offs, but they really need to have a great internet site to go with the shop. Magic Warehouse for example, has an awesome site (great prices as well), and they now have a store w/ lectures, etc.

I agree 100% that if we could get rid of knock-offs, it would be much better for the magic community. But, they are here to stay forever. Those (shops) that don't embrace it and go with it, are losing a ton of potential sales. One shop says they sell the "Wow" knock-off, 30-1 to the real one!! That is a HUGE difference! And again. If they don't sell it, the next shop will. Is that wrong? Well, ONLY 1 in 30 says, yes. The other 30 obviously don't care.

Even the "Café" is hurting creators. How? Look at the "Let's Make A magic Deal" section. Items fly back and forth so fast it makes my head spin! And, the prices are WAY below retail! So, are we supporting the creators by buying from each other at ridiculously low prices? NO! Not one bit!

And to the folks who are copying and selling the knock-offs. I can't blame them either. They are WAY less off than most of us. They don't care about copying from the creators. It isn't illegal. They are taking advantage of the "Internet Free Market". At least they aren't standing at the traffic light with their hand out and lame sign begging for my money.

It IS a difficult topic as it hurts those that we appreciate and want to be rewarded for their original contributions/inventions.

I will close in saying:
I will continue to buy non-knock-offs from:

Barry's Magic
Magic Warehouse
Penguin
Viking
Magic Café Members
Harry Lorayne Magic
Jay Sankey
and now, Madhatter
Markymark
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Yes,it is a difficult topic in that it seems to embrace so many things.
Sadly you are right about cars but I would like to see more state intervention in
our industrys not less. I mean when things went wrong with the banks they came running to the taxpayer to help them out.Socalism is 'evil' untill things go wrong!
So I don't believe the free market or the internet free market is king.

I admire someone begging more then I admire a thief.

I think it's fine to sell products that don't suit us [perhaps due to deceptive advertising] second hand and there are only a limited amount of these items for sale here with the seller more often then not making a loss!
I do know of a magic site in England who refuse to accept ads for dvd's only.
That might come here.
Even if you forget about ethics why does someone want a copy of 'Wow' that's
cheaply made and with parts that jam!
''In memory of a once fluid man,crammed and distorted by the classical mess'' -Bruce Lee
Wizard of Oz
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All good points Mike and Markymark.

Regarding cars, well, don't get me started. But my point wasn't about jobs, it was purely regarding creating an original product, then having the right to market it without the worry of someone else stealing your client base, and hence, your profits. But I said it. I'm done.

And yes, I must be one of The Café's most frequent buyers...mostly vintage and collectables, but I've purchased used "new" effects as well. To me however, there's a big difference in buying a used "original" effect, and a new "knock-off." At least by re-buying the original, you are perpetuating the value of the original, and keeping the creator's name strong. I am much more likely to buy an original John Kennedy effect for instance, if I know I can sell it for a good price if I need to. I don't think anyone ever purchased a knock-off or that reason.

And I CAN blame the people creating the knock-offs. I can easily understand why they are doing it, but I can still blame them. As MarkyMark said, they are thieves. And you're wrong Mike, it IS illegal. What I feel you're missing is the fact that magic creators are small in size and don't have the resources, or time to prosecute these thieves. So, it becomes legal because no one is objecting.

What I did like about your comments Mike, is your description of how brick and mortar shops need to do whatever they can to stay afloat. And, you're absolutely right, it's a catch 22. I feel for everyone in this case...the creators of original magic, the owners of magic shops in a sad economy, and the many, many magic lovers out there looking to get the latest trick for the lowest price. Boy, I'm glad I'm not the one who has to figure this one out.

Anyway, I mean no malice here Mike. This is a good conversation, but I feel we're both probably way-off topic. So, let me put myself back on track...

I believe the internet is a great thing for magic. It's an incredible resource that will ultimately keep the art alive and well. Negatives? Sure, anything as powerful as this that is growing this fast, will always have negatives. But look at how easy it is to speak with other magicians, learn about magic, buy magic, research magic, write about magic...the list goes on and on. This is a golden age right now. And you're right, if brick and mortar shops can figure out a way to have a strong on-line presence, they can keep their shops as well. Maybe, the good ones will even get stronger, because magicians are a tactile breed. They love their stuff, and they love interacting with other magicians. I may be wrong, but I can't imagine magic going totally digital.

Well, again, I'll try to reel myself in and stay on topic... I just bought another effect from Hocus-Pocus. Quick, easy, on-line service with an email that said when my project left so I can track it. I like this company. And, some day, I'm going to visit their shop!
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taller8
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Penguin is my fav. for pricing. I just bought the Gold Extractor for 54.00 shipped. That's about 20.00 cheaper then other sites.

But I like MJM a lot too. Great service, fast shipping, decent selection.

Hocus Pocus ? not too often, I like to see my grand total before I press the pay button. That's just me.
helder
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I buy from Penguin, Magicwarehouse, Madhatter and sometimes from the creator too or other place where the product that I want is cheaper.





Helder
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Doomo
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Quote:
On 2010-09-15 12:56, helder wrote:
I buy from Penguin, Magicwarehouse, Madhatter and sometimes from the creator too or other place where the product that I want is cheaper.





Helder



That is the attitude that is driving more and more people from distributors. They are tired of competing with themselves... A creator sell some product to a distributor... He sells it to Joe the Internet salesman... Who sells it for a 39% discount... It is then that you get !@#$%ed at for not selling at the same price as Joe the Internet dealer... Then you are a greedy sod for not matching Joes prices... Lots of fun... Which is why more creative people are NOT selling to distributors... Which of course opens the market for people who produce crap...

That marks the end of this rant...

Tony
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Remember! More Bang For LESS Bucks! It is the right way!

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MitchellMac
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aligator
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Always buy from the creator when possible. Only occasionally that it isn`t.
Stephen Young
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This is probably going to get me into a lot of trouble but I can't let this go unchallenged

I just read through this interesting thread, and came across the post from Mike of Maryland.

While I agree with his sentiments, and most of the other posters, It's hardly surprising that people think Americans are big headed and arrogant when they come out with statements like;

"I am amazed at how far more advanced they are than us. And to think, we invented the car"

All "we" did was come up with a way to mass produce them ( and as you say, they're crap)
The car was invented in europe.

Sorry for the off topic rant

You can start throwing stones now
Steve
mikenewman
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Steve,
I am glad you picked up on that! You are correct! And no stones coming from my way.
Yes, I knew the car was invented in europe (No suprise; most say Karl Benz from Germany).
And, as you said, we just popularized it by mass producing it! I was waiting for someone to pick up on that! Thank You!

So, now take the magic. The internet/online shops (Just like the U.S. did for cars) is MASS producing the tricks, DVD's etc. It is EVERYWHERE online. A good thing? Some say yes, some ssy, No. Either way, it's here.

Now; those that copy the originators (European cars), produce "Crap"!!! And those looking to save $$$, buy the knock-offs (sometimes having no idea), and end up with crap (U.S. Cars). Not a great analogy, but works for here...

And the shops willing to sell the knock-offs (Crap) are choosing so, to make a profit. Just like U.S. Cars. They have over the years become cheaper and cheaper in their quality (Plastic "bumpers!!"), and of course the price has gone up due to demand!

Same thing for those selling the "Wow" knock-off for example. I have heard that one shop sells the Wow knock-off by a ratio of 30-1 to the real Wow! I say "WOW"!

BTW:
Is anyone buying up Mikame products now that he passed away?
I just bought from Penguin for a great deal on a few items... things I have been wanting off my wish list.
If I could have bought direct from him, I would have for sure. Great guy. Sad to see him go...

I would love to see a "Mikame" store open in his honor in the future. I would shop there. I hope his family decides to keep it going...
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