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phonic69
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The pass is a tool, and if done well, a good one. But like people have said, it's not always "invisible" and rarely does the practice pay off. Why not spend a few hours working on your style rather than trying to figure out all these new moves? Magicians spend an eternity (and I mean magicians, not hobbiests) working on these complicated moves and their act suffers as a result. Who could warrent the use of a pass when a far simpler move could be used with the same acheivment. Just a thought...

Saxon
MattSedlak
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Quote:
On 2002-04-01 12:05, phonic69 wrote:
But like people have said, it's not always "invisible" and rarely does the practice pay off.
Magicians spend an eternity (and I mean magicians, not hobbiests) working on these complicated moves and their act suffers as a result. Who could warrent the use of a pass when a far simpler move could be used with the same acheivment. Just a thought...

Saxon


I don't see where you are coming from with the "rarely does the practice pay off". Most of the magicians that I know that use the pass can do it fairly well.

I don't think that magician's acts suffer because they work on other moves, and certainly not the pass. I first learned the pass from Jim Sisti, whom we all know is an accomplished working professional.

Then Wesley James (one of the best of all time IMO) really helped me with the move. Finally, Ken Krenzel talked to me about the theory behind the pass and how to cover it and the misdirection for it.

All three of these magicians are very well accomplished magicians who spend time working on these moves but I don't think their act suffers. If you can do moves that others can't, then you most likely are also doing effects that others aren't. This is one factor that makes your act better. If it is unique it is not only more entertaining but also more marketable.

Finally, I would like to know what is simpler then the pass. While it is most certainly not the perfect move that can be used continuosly, it is the simplest method of controlling a card to the top (granted the pass has other uses as well).
Luke Dancy
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Las Vegas
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Well lets see, other than a side steal what other sleight/control can have the card replaced into the deck and the deck placed down almost immediately without any movement of the deck as far as the spectators are concerned. In my opinion (that of a pass junky) there is nothing more expedient that can accomplish the same thing that a pass can. It is a tool that every card magician should have at his or her disposal.

Luke Dancy
Steve Knight
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Oxford U.K.
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Saxon, Firstly, Welcome to the Cafe, it's nice to see you here (I trust you are "The one and only Saxon" that I corresponded with a few months ago!).

Re your comments on the pass. Without wishing to criticize, how much practice have you put in with the pass and how close have you come to mastering it? My apologies if you're expert at it (I'm certainly not) it's just that your remarks sound a little like something you've heard or read elsewhere and have taken to be gospel.

I don't wish to sound patronizing but perhaps you need to give it the practice it deserves before underrating it. IMHO nothing beats a cover pass done right under the spectator's nose (literally, well almost, rather than metaphorically). The spectator can "burn" the deck yet one moment the chosen card is in the centre, the next it's on top, that's about as clean as it gets.

If you're looking for sources then I'd recommend Eric Mason's book, "Stuff". It contains an excellent cover pass - the top card is set in position almost automatically and with no real assistance from the left hand, hence there's very little visible movement of the hands. Well worth checking out.
phonic69
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You guys are certainly right (oh, and it's nice to catch up with you Steve!). I don't practice the pass because I believe in simple but effective magic, after all, Eugene Burger practices a similar philosophy and he is a greatly respected magician. The pass is the right move to use in some effects, but for my act, and many others, it is over the top and completely unnecessary. If it works for you then great, and good luck to all those who use it!!!

Saxon
The Raven
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Well thanks for a very detail thought/idea and hates about the pass. Just on a note if I ever do a pass I give a simple distraction. The best one I know is "don't take your eyes off the cards" and about 95% of the time the spectator will look up for roughly about half a second.

all so as an alt. to the pass I use a lateral palm shift if the angles are right
this can be even more effective if used in context
RAVEN


THE TRUTH IS OUT THERE
Dorian Rhodell
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Here's the great thing about the pass. If it is executed properly and under the proper direction or misdirection, then apparently, nothing ever took place. If people are burning your hands then as a performer, your doing something wrong.

Once the pass is completed, you can set the deck down and go on with the presentation for a bit, work in a little time misdirection, pick up the deck very gingerly, and proceed to finish up with whatever you were doing.

I think the reason there is such a fuss over the pass, is because so and so who wrote a book or put out a video (which for some reason in the magic world identifies them as an authority on the subject) said that the pass isn't needed to do good card magic.

Well, that's a completely different statement than saying to replace the pass for a double undercut in every effect when the pass (or one of it's many variants) would be a far superior tool for the effect being performed.

I have found that many people who prefer the cutting actions to those of the pass generally are not well rounded in sleight of hand with cards. I also read up on the thread that the pass looks like what it is (or something to that effect).

Well, if nothing was done, what does nothing look like? The reason(s) many people get caught on the pass could be:

1) They are nervous so they grip the deck tighter and the pass doesn't snap as quick.
2) They haven't practiced enough.
3) Their body gives a tell. You know, elbows flaring, they go up on their tip toes, (which I've actually witnessed) facial contortions, etc.
4) They frame the deck and execute the pass at the wrong time. (That's a big one)
5) They don't use proper misdirection.

I know a lot of people don't like to use the pass and that is fine. However, it DOES make things EASIER. As mentioned it is only a tool to be used at the right time. I will give you a hint to practicing the pass though.....

When you practice in the mirror, as soon as the pass begins to snap..... blinking at that moment will not make it anymore invisible.

Take care guys,
Dorian Rhodell
thelastdoctor
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Dayton Ohio/USA
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Great thread guys. As one who never had any use for a pass for many years, I've been working on my Classic Pass. Why put in the work? Simple, I have an effect that is more powerful if it appears to the spectactor that nothing has "happened".

The card goes into the deck, the deck is set on the table, the story continues. After the time misdirection added to the original pass cover, magic happens.

Honestly, when I started working on the classic pass I thought it was impossible for me to learn (Bad Hand Genes). Then one night after 50 hours of Beverly Hillbillies reruns one night I realized that I had done the pass smoothly enough for me not to feel it. Now it works for the audience too.

Long story short. Use what works for you, but discount nothing. Examine your magic and if you are growing at the rate you would like to. If not examine what you're doing, or not doing.

The more I let go of what I "know" the more I learn.

Good Luck

The Last Doctor
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:stout:
The Last Doctor
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I’m always looking for the perfect pint or sugar free Jelly Babies...
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