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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » New to magic? » » Weeks(?) learning coin production from back palm (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Noel M
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If your goal is doing the Miser's Dream, consider Levent's DVD on the subject. He demonstrates just about every palm and sleight you might need. It's gotten great reviews here and if you hurry you might still be able to buy it before the price goes up. Do a search on Levent or the MD and you'll find it.
ldrosenblum
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Thanks for all the DVD suggestions folks-

I'll look into all of them. And also thanks for the encouragement. I'm relieved to know that it's taken many of you a very long time to master these palms. I assumed that it would take some practice, but wasn't aware of the amount of patience one needs before feeling ready to use a palm in a performance. Unlike learning a new lick on guitar for jamming purposes, you're either ready to perform a sleight, or you're not - there's really no spontaneous "let's try this out" during a live magic performance. I'm quickly learning the importance of practice, now I need to learn the necessity of patience.

Thanks again,

Larry
Check out my new book on our 'perceptual superpowers': www.LawrenceRosenblum.com . It discusses new research on the psychology of misdirection and the neuroplasticity behind expert motor skills.
JamesTong
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Keep practicing Larry. I have been practicing certain routines for years and they have not even been performed live yet.

So the key, besides just practicing, is to have a 'learning and practice journal' (which I have) and note down important information such as the dates you started, notes on your progress, technical remarks on your execution (good or bad), etc, etc.

This journal will be valuable to you in the long run. Its like a progress dairy.
Servaas Koomen
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What also helped for me is to practice sleights that I really used in a current effect. it was more fun for me that way
"The last three or four reps is what makes the muscle grow. This area of pain divides the champion from someone else who is not a champion. That's what most people lack, having the guts to go on and just say they'll go through the pain no matter what" A.
scaevola
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Quote:
Unlike learning a new lick on guitar for jamming purposes, you're either ready to perform a sleight, or you're not - there's really no spontaneous "let's try this out" during a live magic performance. I'm quickly learning the importance of practice, now I need to learn the necessity of patience.



Yeah you hit the nail on the head right here. I have been practicing various back clips and techniques for YEARS. Some of it is ready for spectators and I use everyday, some of it is not.
ldrosenblum
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Thanks for all the encouragement-

You know, as I was thinking about my experience and your input, I realized that I have actually written about something that is quite relevant: the neuroplasticity behind learning an expert motor skill.
It's a short excerpt from my upcoming book that some of you may find interesting. It's long but a pretty easy read:


To get a sense of how short-term plasticity changes to longer-term plasticity, consider this experiment. A group of non-musicians were taught to use their right hand to play a complex pattern on a digital piano keyboard. The keyboard was connected to a computer so that the subjects’ fingering errors, fluidity, and rhythmic consistency could be monitored. Subjects practiced this pattern for two hours on each of five consecutive days. Unsurprisingly, the precision and consistency of the subjects playing increased significantly over this period.

Brain scans (mapping, actually) were conducted on each day before and after the practice sessions. These scans revealed that across the five days, the brain areas dedicated to controlling the muscles of the right-hand fingers increased. However, this increase only appeared after the two hour practice sessions on each day. Scans conducted before the subjects practiced, failed to reveal any change in the size of the relevant brain areas. The practice-induced plasticity was short-lived, reverting to its original state by the next day. At the same time however, once a practice session reestablished the plasticity changes, those changes did benefit from the accumulated experience. This fact, no doubt, was related to the improved performance subjects displayed over the five days.

Now, at this point in the experiment, half the subjects were let off the hook: they stopped practicing the keyboard pattern altogether. The other group however, continued practicing the pattern for two hours, Monday through Friday, for the next four weeks. On each Monday morning and Friday afternoon, all subjects’ brains were scanned. The results were stunning. While the group of subjects who stopped practicing showed brain area maps just like those they exhibited before the experiment began, the practicing group showed continued reorganization. But most interesting was the fact that for the group that had practiced for four weeks, their Monday morning scans—scans taken after a weekend without practice—also showed this reorganization. This means that the reorganization induced by four weeks of practice was more permanent, evident even after two days of rest. It’s likely that the four weeks of practice created the longer-term neuroplasticity indicative of actual nerve cell growth.

Practice doesn’t just make perfect: It makes plasticity permanent.
Check out my new book on our 'perceptual superpowers': www.LawrenceRosenblum.com . It discusses new research on the psychology of misdirection and the neuroplasticity behind expert motor skills.
scaevola
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You can get really good with the coins in practice but then drop them when you do it live. Not only are you trying to do some fine motor coordination, you are trying to psychologically outwit people too. Coin work is hard. It's similar to music but also very different.

The main difference is in music you can hear yourself play. When those keyboardists practiced in your article, they knew when they were messing up for sure. Because of the theatrical and psychological nuances of magic, I can practice my coin moves in a mirror but still mess up when I try to do a trick for a spectator. That's why in addition to endless hours of practice of individual moves, it is also necessary to practice the moves IN CONTEXT and also for live people.
JamesTong
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Fully agree with your thoughts.
DWRackley
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Ldrosenblum

I really appreciate your post. I play the keyboard regularly in public, and often we will have a week (or less) to learn a new part. We have a saying (well actually we have two: one is “Grab a wrinkle and hang on!”). The one relevant to this post is “Practice doesn’t make perfect. PERFECT Practice makes perfect.”

I’ve always been fascinated with the function of memory, largely for personal reasons, but I’m also working on a book dealing with practical methods of “reprogramming” the hippocampus/amigdala to overcome both long and short-term fear (which can very much apply to stage fright!)

Without meaning to over-simplify, repetition is a key to MANY accomplishments!
...what if I could read your mind?

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ldrosenblum
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Yep, folks -

I completely agree with your posts. Having experience playing music, I can say that while there are similarities to practicing sleights, magic does have additional complications - those you've mentioned.

I am happy to report that I can actually feel, and see myself improve two of the sleights I've been practicing. I've been working on both the finger and down's palm for Miser's dream purposes, and after about six weeks, it's really getting there! Not quite ready for performing yet, but I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Of course I'm still months, if not years away from a back palm, but the improvement is encouraging. (And you've all convinced me to not wait until I get the back palm to try a few Miser mini-performances.) Regardless, it's really quite a treat to learn that even a middle-aged brain can learn new tricks.

And I appreciate everyone's support in the endeavor!

Cheers,

Larry
Check out my new book on our 'perceptual superpowers': www.LawrenceRosenblum.com . It discusses new research on the psychology of misdirection and the neuroplasticity behind expert motor skills.
JamesTong
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Larry, I am glad to hear you are seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. Enjoy!
asgar
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1.I'm planning to produce multiple coins from back of the hand.but it seems really hard.Did he really do it on the stage.I've been manipulating coins since I was quite young so coins are not new to me but this sleight requires strength from all your fingers at the same time.2.do you guys use half dollar of silver dollar also find it difficult to produce multiple silver dollar for multiple coins produce from downs palm.i find multiple silver dollars are hard to handle but good for back palming.3.I'm trying to do back palming for some time but the hands still don't look natural .Though it looks like the pics in the books or the vdos but I'm not quite satisfied with it .Is there room to improve?i think back palming is not that good for close up or you can use it in closeup only when you move your hands quickly.any comments please.
Magic is believing in yourself, if you can do that, you can make anything happen.
Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
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I can easily backpalm one coin but not quite sure how you would palm multiple coins due to the nature of the backpalm. The fingers need to grasp the coin and Im not sure how you can backpalm another coin while already palming one....time to check Modern Coin Magic DVD and check again.
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