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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » THE MAGIC MENU - The International Journal for Close-Up Magicians » » Autumn 2009 - Comments or Questions? » » TOPIC IS LOCKED (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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patrick flanagan
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Jim,
First, I am soooo happy that the Magic Menu is back. I seriously can't count how many times I've revisited the Menu's years 1-10.
My critique...I really like the lay-out and the feel of the magazine. You have some solid contributors that make me wish this was a weekly magazine.
I couldn't quite understand why some of the writers went to such length to intro themselves when there was a similar bio at the end of end article.
As previously mentioned, interviewing Christopher Lyle, I think, was a poor choice considering we will be learning about him each issue.
One thing not mentioned yet that had been discussed with a friend of mine was....the swearing in a couple of the articles. Tom Frank and Christopher Lyle's colorful, and unnecessary, language, quite honestly, shocked me. Like walking up the stairs and thinking there is one more step than there really is kinda of shocking. I don't think it belongs in a magazine of this nature. If they are trying to be hip and edgy....let them do that with the content....let them do that with their opinions....it doesn't need to be so blatant and amatuerish. Believe me, I am not prudish by any stretch of the imagination. My impression was if this is the way they want to portray themselves in a written publication....how do they treat their audiences? Do I want advice from someone who has to express themselves in this nature? I"ve seen enough of Mr. Lyle on here to know that he is an inteligent and top-notch performer. Mr. Frank, I'm not familiar with. I"m willing to bet both of them are quite capable of expressing their thoughts without swearing.
Overall, Jim, I really like the new Menu....and I'm very happy it's back!!!!
Thanks

Patrick
Christopher Lyle
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Quote:
On 2009-10-28 12:05, aussiemagic wrote:

Having a writer of the journal featured in another section of the journal came across as a strange thing to do in the first issue. It might be a "cute" thing to do down the track, but for the first issue it seemed "odd" for lack of a better word.

Seems like everyone (not just you) wasn't very appreciative of my being featured. I'm not sure what the actual reason for that was. James Prince contacted me and said that he wanted to use me as his first "special feature" so I was just along for the ride. I'm sure that James will be along here after awhile to give you his insight as to why he chose me to be the first one out of the shoot. I was not part of that decesion making process.

Quote:
On 2009-10-28 12:05, aussiemagic wrote:

As for my feelings in regard to some of the columns, I feel that as this is meant to be "The International Journal for Professional Close-Up Magicians," then a high standard should be aspired to by the writers.

I think I can speak for everyone (Jim included) when I say that all of us are striving to put our best foot forward.

The only problem that I see is Jim and the Ol' Gang set such a HIGH LEVEL of EXCELLENCE with the original Menu. Not that it's a problem, but I think we can all agree that the bar has been set pretty gosh darn high. I take that as a challenge as I want the NEW Menu to equal if not exceed where the original left off.

I think with the staff that Jim has on board, that we're all very capable and are up for that challenge.

Quote:
On 2009-10-28 12:05, aussiemagic wrote:

If this is the case, shouldn't we be aspiring to more "depth"! "Don't market where other magicians perform" and "YOU are the magic" strikes me as so cliche and hackneyed.

The point of Sleightly Delusional (a fitting name I should think) was to provide me a place to rant and spout off about all the things that bother me about the restaurant magic industry and the close up/strolling magic community as a whole.

I think that many will agree, that one of the things I'm quite famous for are my rants and raves about this that and the other. I would wager to say that I'm best known for my venomous writing style. I tell it like it is, and if people's feathers get ruffled, then so be it. I have been called The Angry Magician, The Pitbull of Magic, etc.

I wanted my first column to have substance and truely set the tone for what you can expect from me in the future.

I chose the the topic of ethics b/c there are many people out there that believe that it's ok to just walk in to your restaurant and attempt to take the gig from you. To them, it's nothing more than a way of competeting with others.

Now granted, it's doubtful that a person who feels this is acceptable behavior will have their mind changed from reading my column, but my hope is that when we "as a community" see this happen, we can give those people a giant smack and let them know it's WRONG to do that.

My thought also, is I don't know who our subscribers are. There may be someone who subscribed for reasons of wanting to learn more about restaurant magic. Maybe their a hobbiest who is thinking about getting into this industry. They need to hear from someone like myself that that's NOT the ETHICAL way to handle booking a restaurant.

So I don't believe that my column was cliche'...I thought it was thought provoking and perhaps a "sleight" (pun intended) contraversial.

I pretty much have my next 2 articles already written...just some fine touches here and there but overall, there done. One is a continuation on the ethics story, but from a different side of the coin, and another is on a subject that more than likely will stirr up a hornets nest.

With that said...both of those could be scrapped and I could start over.

Understand, that Sleightly Delusional is a place for me to do what I do best...rant about stuff that bugs me. What bugs you?

Are there any topics that bug you that you'd like to see me address? Let me know.

I guess the GOOD NEWS is that everyone agrees with what I said in my article. Seems like the only major gripe is that I was featured in James' column. That's my silver lining...

Christopher

Quote:
On 2009-10-29 01:11, patrick flanagan wrote:

Tom Frank and Christopher Lyle's colorful, and unnecessary, language, quite honestly, shocked me.


Patrick,

I'm a tad bit confused?!?!? After reading your statement, I had to go back and re-read my column. I never used any profanity anywhere in the text.

I too, was a bit surprised by the F! Bomb that Tom delivered...but my thought was (as a columnist), that it's his column so he could do with it as he wants. It didn't offend at all, but I wasn't expecting to see it in the Menu.

Personally...I feel that profanity, if used in the right way at the right time, can be very moving. However, like you, I feel that most of the time it's used as a crutch.

So would you mind showing me WHERE exactly I used profanity? I have read my column a couple of times as has my wife and neither of us can figure where I swore.

Christopher
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
JTW
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Not defending Tom or what he wrote but...I thought Mr. Sisti summed it up nicely "You're in for a bumpy ride". I've known Tom for a long time and he is a thoughtful and amazingly intelligent individual. He wears his emotions on his sleeve and he is a street performer in the truest sense of the genre. He is irreverent and can be caustic at times because he deeply loves magic. Don't let the language he uses throw you. You can gain valuable insight from his writing.
HerbLarry
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I trust you guys will do much better than the last occupant of this space.
Tom Frank rocks!
You know why don't act naive.
Adam1975
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I think the mag was very good,and all the columnists,were good choices.I don't entirely agree with everyones view,all the time,but it makes you think,surely the main thing.
One thing is for sure,you cant please all of the people,all of the time...

If the columnists were to "write stuff bearing in mind everyones points on here" they would barely be able to write at all!
They have been hired to give there views,in there style.
Balloons are not really my thing,tbh,but I know a lot like them,and Mark Byrne certainly knows his stuff,so a good choice,just not for me.
A good balance of tricks and opinions,long may that continue.
For me,a good start.Well done all concerned.
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
james prince
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Some quotes from the above about "Profile of a Worker"

'Why would you have a column writer in the magazine as the featured performer of another section in the same magazine? Especially in the first issue'

'Although I like Chris I have to agree that if he is already writing a column then another magician might have been used for the Profile of a Worker. Do we really have such a limited pool to draw from that this was necessary?'

'I'm sure that James will be along here after awhile to give you his insight as to why he chose me to be the first one out of the shoot'

……………………………………………………………………………………

Why did I feel Chris was a good choice as first profile?

Well it seemed to me that as Chris was by his own admission, someone with 'no claim to fame' it would be helpful and informative to establish his credentials and give the reader a feel for him as a working performer

This especially as Chris is contributing strong opinion based articles

One thing to read these when you don't know the writer, another when you've had an overview and can appreciate the sheer volume of work he's doing in the trenches - 5 nights a week and two lunch time sessions - every single week of the year!

Next time I'll be sure and choose a non-staffer but expect to see them crop up occasionally

In a very short time subscribers will be able to ask themselves questions like 'What trick should I open with?' - 'Should I take tips?' - 'How many effects should I carry?' and using the Menu quickly see what a large selection of real workers use in the field are doing

I think this is going to build into an extremely interesting and valuable resource

And…….

Are there any questions you feel I didn't ask that you would like to see included?
Jim Sisti
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I think Adam has quite nicely summed up the difficulty that's always been a part of publishing The Magic Menu. This is a very subjective art form and we're trying to provide information for a wide range of performers. It would seem, on the surface, that restaurant magicians are restaurant magicians but this isn't so. We have had, as subscribers, magicians who perform in night clubs and clowns who perform magic in fast food restaurants, and everyone in between. Accordingly, there are all kinds of aesthetics and sensibilities out there and it's very hard to please one group and not offend someone else.

In fact, even before launch, I had someone take exception to one of the announced columnists to which I replied that I obviously couldn't (and wouldn’t!) guarantee that anything they say (or I say, for that matter) wouldn’t offend somebody somewhere or run contrary to someone else’s opinion. In fact, it would be odd if everybody agreed with everything in any magazine.

However, if anything our columnists write makes you think more closely about your own work, I would count it as success.
mormonyoyoman
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Quote:
On 2009-10-29 01:11, patrick flanagan wrote:
Tom Frank and Christopher Lyle's colorful, and unnecessary, language, quite honestly, shocked me...it doesn't need to be so blatant and amatuerish.


That's why I skipped their columns at the first ambush, and tore them out of the magazine. Well, only half -- if only their columns were front & back of the same sheets. Since I don't hang around in junior high schools, I figure I don't need to put up with obscenities.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet (And, nope, I don't care what you call me.)
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
John Pilotzi
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Why do so many people feel that they can interfere with anothers project. Mr. Sisti's magazine is his child; and he should be able to nurture it in any way that he deems fit. If he changed its style & content to suit others - surely it'd lose its unique charm. I've not yet subscribed, but when I do - I sure ain't gonna complain. If I don't like it, I'll just stop my subscription. JP
mormonyoyoman
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John, in what way did I interfere with Jim's brainchild? Have I not the right to avoid ambushes? If two writers want to alienate a percentage of their audience that is their right; it is equally our right to not read it. There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

*jeep!
--Grandpa
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Christopher Lyle
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Quote:
On 2009-10-30 01:32, John Pilotzi wrote:
Why do so many people feel that they can interfere with anothers project. Mr. Sisti's magazine is his child; and he should be able to nurture it in any way that he deems fit. If he changed its style & content to suit others - surely it'd lose its unique charm. I've not yet subscribed, but when I do - I sure ain't gonna complain. If I don't like it, I'll just stop my subscription. JP


John,

Thanks for "sticking up for us" but truth be told, I think it's a non issue. No matter what we try and do, we will never please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

I don't look at the commentary as "interfering" with our project, I take it as feedback. That's the nature of the beast when you're involved with something of this nature.

Chet and I spoke privately and I believe that on the issue, we shall agree to disagree. Whereas I do not agree with his observation, I do respect his position. Will I change my style of writing? Doubtful. I gotta me when I write as all of the columnists should.

The majority of emails and private messages that I have received have been all positive...with a small % being negative.

I can live with that....! = )

Christopher
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
patrick flanagan
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John,
Please, read the first post in this thread. Jim asked what we liked and what we hated. I do, in fact, like it and I'm glad it is back. I enjoyed the content and the topics covered. I have huge respect for Jim and the effort he has put into the Magic Menu (past and current). I was not offended by some of the words Tom and Christopher used. Heck, I drop about 12 f-bombs every day driving home from work in the Chicago traffic. I was just surprised to see it in this publication.
Christopher, to answer your question, no...you really didn't use swear words in your article. Still, I think (my opinion) references to throwing poo, !@#$%-slapping, being bent over a table and raped, perfeshANAL, etc. are examples of terminology that I found odd. Again, just my opinion. As far as the content and message of the article....wonderful. I have nothing against you personally. As a matter of fact, I had mentioned to one of your fellow writers, well over a year ago, how I'd like to see you perform because I think you'd be very entertaining. I still feel that way.
You are obviously free to use whatever words you and the editor deem appropriate....God bless America.
Will it stop me from subscribing to the Magic Menu....nope. Our choice of words reflect how we want to be perceived. If you're good with that, so am I.
peace
patrick
Christopher Lyle
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Patrick,

Understand that I have taken no offense to anything that anyone has said. I just wanted you to clairfiy since you had said that I swore in my column which I obviously did not.

Quote:
On 2009-10-30 03:28, patrick flanagan wrote:

Christopher, to answer your question, no...you really didn't use swear words in your article. Still, I think (my opinion) references to throwing poo, !@#$%-slapping, being bent over a table and raped, perfeshANAL, etc. are examples of terminology that I found odd.



One thing that I think people will quickly learn about me (if they haven't already) is that I'm very passionate when it comes to this fine art of magic. I'm very opinionated and I say what feel. I don't dress it up in roses and sunshine. I'm not PC and I never will be. I'm not left nor am I right. I walk right down the middle of Politically Correct Ave. with my middle finger extended high and proud.

It seems to me that our society has gotten very soft. I'm anything but...and I'm fine with that. I completely understand that I do rub people the wrong way. You either like me or you don't.

So obviously, when I write...my personallity shows quite a bit. I'm fine with using "color" when I write. There's a bit of an edge to my style b/c there's a bit of an edge to me.

Where I'm from, we would call most of those terms "slang"...but I guess that's for the reader to determine for themself. I did want to go on record that I did not swear in my column nor will I unless I feel it's necessary...which will be hardly ever.

I should also mention that I did not say "perfeshANAL" in my column. I said perfeshanal. I never CAPED the anal...you did that. All I was doing was using a term from the book Our Magic. That was not a term I made up, it's just one that I use to describe people like this.

The bottom line here is that I'm very happy that you agree with what I said even if you don't agree with how I said it.

I got a feeling that's going to be the norm for Sleightly Delusional...that is of course unless you just tear out my column to catch the bird cage fodder as Chet did...but I gotta me! To alter my persoanllity to fit or conform to what others want just isn't me...and I gotta be myself.

So for those out there who didn't like my verbiage, I gotta feeling (as Jim said above) "you're in for a bumpy ride!"

I am what I am...for better or for worse...
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
fredface
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Well done Mr. Lyle. Thank God for writers like you. The new namby-pamby writers (in magic) are a pain. Great magazine! FF. Oh yeah, Paul Gordan's tricks have lept right into my act!! Wow!!!
fredface
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By the way, I tried to introduce myself on TMC...but my post vanished. I'm Fred Tonati out of Chicago. Cardnut extreme...
james prince
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When you consider the subject Chris was writing about I think he did quite well to restrict his terminology

Someone who tries to steal your restaurant = A perfeshanal

I think he could have come up with a lot worse!

And been justified!

No one to my knowledge had ever tried to steal my restaurants but I have a friend who had his taken away by an under cutter,
It's no fun when earning a living involved
And I agree with Chris -
It's not good old American competition and enterprise -
But if you want the rest of the argument -
Buy the magazine!

………….

But this is not why I'm posting - I got sidetracked

Fred Tonati mentions Paul Gordon's
(note spelling - not Paul Gordan - now who's getting anal)
two great tricks in this edition -

Like him I've already played with 'Diminishing? Not Likely!' and it's a great follow up to any 4 ace routine

Even better is that you can go onto Paul's own website and watch him use them in performance to 'real' people and see that their straight out of his act

Very generous Paul - I look forward to your next offering
Christopher Lyle
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Fred...

I'm honored that your FIRST offical post on the Café' was to comment about my column. My hat's off to you sir! Welcome to the insanity that is The Magic Café. = )

I'm glad you enjoyed my column...thanks for supporting us and subscribing.

Christopher
In Mystery,


Christopher Lyle
Magician, Comic, Daredevil, and Balloon Twisting Genius
For a Good Time...CLICK HERE!
patrick flanagan
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Hi Fred...welcome
I'm from Chicago, also, born and raised.
This may not be the proper place for a question like this, but I'll ask anyhow.
Since my geographic performing area is fairly limited to the midwest, I wonder how magic is received in different parts of the country (world, also, for that matter). I realize an analysis (there is that word again...lol) of this nature would be ripe with generalizations. But, in terms of close up magic, for example, what are the prevalant performing styles and influences by region of the country. For example, being from Chicago, people say that Don Alan has influenced the style of close up magic probably more than anyone else. How about other areas of the country?
Christopher, based on your bio, you've spent time in a few different time zones. Do you see differences in audiences based on region?
And to further comment on the Magic Menu (making this post relevant to this area...lol), whomever was assigned the task of proof-reading Danny Doyle's column deserves hazard pay....lol. Danny knows I'm just messin' with him.
Patrick
Adam1975
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Quote:
On 2009-10-29 20:42, mormonyoyoman wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-10-29 01:11, patrick flanagan wrote:
Tom Frank and Christopher Lyle's colorful, and unnecessary, language, quite honestly, shocked me...it doesn't need to be so blatant and amatuerish.


That's why I skipped their columns at the first ambush, and tore them out of the magazine. Well, only half -- if only their columns were front & back of the same sheets. Since I don't hang around in junior high schools, I figure I don't need to put up with obscenities.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet (And, nope, I don't care what you call me.)


Blimey,is a couple of swear words really such a big deal...I mean,really??!!
Each to there own of course,but tearing up the mag?!
Come on! Smile
Ive upped my standards.Now,up yours!
mormonyoyoman
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Sorry, Adam, but I don't want people to come into my place and poop on the furniture. Equally, I don't like people pooping into my brain. It's quite as rude as stealing someone's restaurant gig.

I know it's not politically correct to condone moral cleanliness, but that's just the way it is.

*jeep!
--Grandpa Chet
#ShareGoodness #ldsconf
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