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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Casting the bones (11 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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The Curator
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Horse Camel Sheep Goat


4 0 0 0 The best combination possible: Good luck, happiness, and good health
0 4 0 0 All your wishes will come true
0 0 4 0 Everlasting luck
0 0 0 4 Others might try to harm you, better be careful
3 1 0 0 One will come or arrive soon
3 0 1 0 There are no obstacles on your way
3 0 0 1 Everything is evenly successful
2 1 1 0 Happiness
2 0 1 1 Good luck
2 1 0 1 Your business will show to be fruitful in the short run
2 2 0 0 Your work will be successful
2 0 2 0 Your goals will be fulfilled
2 0 0 2 Some obstacles will come
1 3 0 0 Long-lasting happiness
1 0 3 0 Your side is safe
1 0 0 3 Gossips and quarrels
1 2 1 0 More gossips and bad quarrels
1 1 2 0 Someone else will benefit from your work
1 1 0 2 Good health and happiness
1 0 2 1 No difficulties
1 2 0 1 You will get good news
1 1 1 1 Very good
0 2 1 1 It's not clear that everything will be successful
0 2 2 0 Things are on your side, but not completely
0 2 0 2 No problems
0 1 2 1 Unsuccessful
0 1 1 2 Everything is on others' side
0 1 3 0 Misfortune
0 1 0 3 Outside force will influence you
0 0 3 1 Your business will be successful most of the time
0 0 2 2 Success
0 0 1 3 Bad luck


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Camel-Horse-Sheep-Goat
The Curator
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Found another source about bone fortune telling here.
http://www.isvroma.it/public/pecus/holmgren.pdf
Seems that I'm monologuing here. Smile
julieannjohnson
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It looks like your version of Complicated Forune Telling,
(Shagai) is defective. I've put the results in more logical
numerical order so you can see what I mean. There seem to
be three lines MISSING. Please check my work, because I am
not sure, but something seems off here.

Horse Camel Sheep Goat

4+0+0+0 (4)

4 0 0 0 The best combination possible: Good luck, happiness, and good health
0 4 0 0 All your wishes will come true
0 0 4 0 Everlasting luck
0 0 0 4 Others might try to harm you, better be careful

3+1+0+0 (12, but 2 are MISSING)

3 1 0 0 One will come or arrive soon
3 0 1 0 There are no obstacles on your way
3 0 0 1 Everything is evenly successful
1 3 0 0 Long-lasting happiness
1 0 3 0 Your side is safe
1 0 0 3 Gossips and quarrels
0 3 0 1 MISSING
0 3 1 0 MISSING
0 1 3 0 Misfortune
0 1 0 3 Outside force will influence you
0 0 3 1 Your business will be successful most of the time
0 0 1 3 Bad luck

2+2+0+0 (6)

2 2 0 0 Your work will be successful
2 0 2 0 Your goals will be fulfilled
2 0 0 2 Some obstacles will come
0 2 2 0 Things are on your side, but not completely
0 2 0 2 No problems
0 0 2 2 Success

2+1+1+0 (12, but one is MISSING)

2 1 1 0 Happiness
2 1 0 1 Your business will show to be fruitful in the short run
2 0 1 1 Good luck
1 2 1 0 More gossips and bad quarrels
1 2 0 1 You will get good news
1 1 2 0 Someone else will benefit from your work
1 1 0 2 Good health and happiness
1 0 2 1 No difficulties
1 0 1 2 MISSING
0 2 1 1 It's not clear that everything will be successful
0 1 2 1 Unsuccessful
0 1 1 2 Everything is on others' side

1+1+1+1 (1)

1 1 1 1 Very good

Total 4+12+6+12+1=35 BUT THREE ARE MISSING

The logical answer to this math problem is 36,
but one answer is not allowed ( 0 0 0 0 ),
which is why there should be 35 results.
Your list gives but 32.
The Curator
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Yes, some are missing in the pattern list.
I gonna look for other sources.
In 2001, Nicolas,one of the Surnateum team member did an expedition in Mongolia and brought me back a small box with various items: 4 shagais, 2 Mongolian Dice (they're different from ours), buddhist amulets...
I finally dig it out.
Another nice set for exhibition/performance.

Image


Also, the shagais are colored in Blue (Tengri: the Sky), Red (the people), Yellow (color of the Soyombo), White.
Interpretation of the oracle may slightly vary according to the colors of the bones and their position after the throw.
Bill Ligon
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All four sources that I have consulted list only thirty-two possible outcomes. Can it be that those three that are not listed are simply ignored? Have they been lost?
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The Curator
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The dice in the box are used for a kind of MO divination, a buddhist variation on dice fortune telling.
Mongolian dice differ from ours: 6 faces 3, 5 faces 1, 2 faces 4.
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On the same Mongolian shop, I found this nice buddhist astrological chart/Talisman (in Tibetan...)

Image


And a small Mongolian Tsakli representing the fierce 4 armed Mahakala.

Image


I'm preparing a small set with the Shagai box.
Bill Ligon
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I am green with envy, Curator! Those are beautiful!
Author of THE HOLY ART: Bizarre Magick From Naljorpa's Cave. NOW IN HARDCOVER! VIEW: <BR>www.lulu.com/content/1399405 ORDER: http://stores.lulu.com/naljorpa
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The Curator
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Quote:
On 2009-12-13 13:05, Bill Ligon wrote:
I am green with envy, Curator! Those are beautiful!


By looking at Mahakala, you shouldn't...
The Curator
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Shagai set, Mongolian grimoires, I-Ching coins ...
A lot of potential for bizarrists.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
The Curator
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Still monologuing...
A nice link about MO divination and Chöd. Mo can be done various ways, including dice, Mo cards or rosary.
http://www.buddhachannel.tv/portail/spip.php?article3232
Minyak
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The Curator,

The set of Mongolian divination objects are really beautiful.

Do you know the MO dice interpretation?

Would you please be so kind as to post them. I know quite a few Tibetan interpretations but none with two dice.
The Curator
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I found several interpretations with one die thrown twice. I may suppose that both dice may be thrown together (one being considered as the firt one, the other as the second).
I found this interesting link http://freakyfortuneteller.com/fenn/?p=826
The dice may also simply be used for gambling.
Minyak
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Thanks Curator,

The Manjushri divination, I am familiar with.

There are however in Bhutan, divination(s) with two dice where odd numbers are good, even bad and the dice are thrown three times. Ascending patterns are considered good.

Do you know anyone who is familiar with Bhutanese divination?

BTW the Mahakala is 6 armed - being the standard protector of the Gelugpa school that prevailed in Mongolia.
The Curator
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Thanks for the Mahakala notification, I missed two arms. The tsakli is very small.
I don't know about Bhutanese divination (except for the odd/even dice numbers), I'm more familiar with the poe's (half moon sticks) and the "chi chi" sticks (more chinese).
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Speaking about Mo Die oracle. I found this beauty.

Image


http://www.vajragallery.com/ritual/r0015.html

Not for sale anymore...
Gede Nibo
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Quote:
On 2009-12-14 06:22, The Curator wrote:
Shagai set, Mongolian grimoires, I-Ching coins ...
A lot of potential for bizarrists.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image



breathtaking! soul taking! yours good Master?
The Curator
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Mine, young Padawan.
And a nice link about Mo Oracle
http://www.tacomacc.edu/home/jkellerm/Et.......5Mo.htm

:coffee:
The Curator
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Another Bone Casting Oracle, made from Cave Bear Bones.
The 4 bones are Thola, Cohado, Scitay, Imbay. The three other items are a piece of Madrake Root (vegetal), a Cave Bear Tooth (Animal), an antique Bear stone fetish (Mineral). The fourth element in the center of the zone, a primitive Spiral Shell coin, represents Time.

Image
Van Helmont
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Vintage Schelmans!
The Epiphany Before Christmas: this day (12/23/13) I leave the Café for good!
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The spooky, the mysterious...the bizarre! » » Casting the bones (11 Likes)
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