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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » Darwin Ortiz, casino experience? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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ImpromptuBoy
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Hi everyone.
I'm personally, a big fan of Darwin Ortiz, but pardon me if I'm unaware, but is there a source that mentions Darwin Ortiz's casino experience? Does he even have dealing experience, since he's a casino consultant? Just gets me wondering, how does one become a casino consultant without having any experience in the industry.

Michael
MickeyPainless
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Quote:
On 2009-11-06 14:34, ImpromptuBoy wrote:

how does one become a casino consultant without having any experience in the industry.

Michael


Monster chops and a long line of bull? Smile

Actually I'd be interested myself! Not so much about the how too of becoming a consultant but what Darwin's back round is! The man does have the monster chops fersure fersure!
tommy
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Harry taught him everything he knows.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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Anderson? Smile
ImpromptuBoy
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Quote:
On 2009-11-06 17:50, tommy wrote:
Harry taught him everything he knows.


I'm assuming Lorayne, cause darwin attended the school of memory in new york, or something along those lines.. Smile
Alan M
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Darwin was a teacher in Harry's memory course.
iamslow
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YOu have to learn the games and be able to deal the games better than the dealers themselves... I believe Darwin did some consulting, but as far as repeat business, that was another story...
"Everyone is tough till they get punched in the face" Mike Tyson
The Dowser
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There is no one consulting who deals the games better than a good or even average dealer that is still working on the table eight hours a day.
ASW
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Quote:
On 2009-11-06 14:34, ImpromptuBoy wrote:
Just gets me wondering, how does one become a casino consultant without having any experience in the industry.

Michael


Hi Michael,

Darwin is a pal of mine so I know he won't mind me answering this.

You don't need to have been a dealer to consult on game protection. You just need to know how games need to be protected. You can get that knowledge from a number of sources. This can include any one or a combination of the following: having experience as a player, experience as a surveillance operative, experience in gaming law enforcement, experience taking off games, experience gained via contact with pro hustlers, gamblers and enforcers.

Darwin was a pro card counter in the 70s and has developed numerous industry contacts and contacts with many scufflers and advantage players.

The idea that you need to have dealt a game in a casino to consult breaks down when you consider that many of the guys who consult who have dealt games only dealt a handful of the games (if more than one) and wouldn't have dealt every single variation that has arisen at one time or another. I know consultants who have dealt BJ but not much else, or who have managed poker rooms but maybe not dealt Baccarat or Craps. But they have accumulated vast knowledge from interacting and observing. Let's not forget some of the guys who could best advise you on how to protect a game have NEVER worked an honest day in their life. In a casino or anywhere else. But they sure know how to take off a game or two. I am sure, however that dealing a game would give you tremendous insights into the reality of life for dealers. It's a crap job - a factory floor job. And that's how collusions and conspiracies get a foothold. But I digress.

You can see Darwin's client list here:

http://www.darwinortiz.com/protection-clients.php

Best,

Andrew
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tommy
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Realistically you need casino experience.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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tenchu
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After watching and reading probably everything that Mr Ortiz released I have absolutely no doubts that this man know's what's up.
kcg5
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Quote:
On 2009-11-07 07:06, iamslow wrote:
YOu have to learn the games and be able to deal the games better than the dealers themselves... I believe Darwin did some consulting, but as far as repeat business, that was another story...


Not so sure about that first statement..
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
tommy
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You can take training get qualified, There are many places you get this sort of stuff:

Who We Are and What We Do

We provide consulting services for casinos and

training for surveillance, security, gaming regulation

and casino operations personnel.

Be sure to view our

consulting and training packages.

Open Enrollment Surveillance and Security Training

Our Publications are now available as a

textbook

as well as

individual articles


Hang on though. Why should we be helping you catch us? Smile
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

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ASW
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Quote:
On 2009-11-08 05:38, tommy wrote:
Realistically you need casino experience.


I think it would be useful for people of lesser talent, knowledge and no contacts, who were unable to comprehend the way a casino works.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

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tommy
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Like you and Ortiz you mean? Smile
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ASW
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On 2009-11-08 17:42, tommy wrote:
Like you and Ortiz you mean? Smile


Amusing.

I have never worked as a consultant. I have never said I worked as a consultant. I have never had any desire to work as a consultant. I do know a few, however, and while it might assist to have worked as a dealer, it is by no means necessary. Just as it is by no means necessary to have worked as a scuffler to be able to advise on game protection. If you have the knowledge, you have the knowledge.

Darwin Ortiz's client list speaks for itself, regardless of any snarky comments from magic forum members.

Andrew
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
iamslow
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Quote:
On 2009-11-09 02:00, ASW wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-11-08 17:42, tommy wrote:
Like you and Ortiz you mean? Smile


Amusing.

I have never worked as a consultant. I have never said I worked as a consultant. I have never had any desire to work as a consultant. I do know a few, however, and while it might assist to have worked as a dealer, it is by no means necessary. Just as it is by no means necessary to have worked as a scuffler to be able to advise on game protection. If you have the knowledge, you have the knowledge.


Andrew

:applause:




j
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tommy
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Smile

Quote:

When described by others, you seem to hold the titles of "casino expert" and "game protection specialist." Who is Steve Forte and what makes you uniquely qualified to be an expert in game protection?


I would say that Steve Forte is dedicated student of the game protection field and one who has spent the greater part of my life actively researching the topic from every conceivable angle. If I have any unique qualifications to offer, it might be that I have experienced the business from so many different perspectives ... most notable would include many years working in the business, many years beating the games as a high-stakes professional player, and many years traveling around the world as a consultant specializing in game protection.

http://www.dicedealer.com/steve_forte.htm


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ASW
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All true and Steve Forte is a truly knowledgeable and skilled operator. The man is astonishing.

But it doesn't negate the qualifications of other guys whose experience might be different. It's like saying Chuck Yeager wasn't a real pilot because he didn't fly passenger liners.
Whenever I find myself gripping anything too tightly I just ask myself "How would Guy Hollingworth hold this?"

A magician on the Genii Forum

"I would respect VIPs if they respect history."

Hideo Kato
Mr. Z
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Within the casino industry itself you will find people in management positions, surveillance, etc.. who've never dealt a game in their lives. I work with a guy who was such a nightmare as a dealer they had to move him up to a floor position, he was that bad. Promoting incompetence happens in every business, gaming is no exception. In fact I know surveillance directors who've never dealt. These people who work in the eye are often paid to attend dealing school to "learn the games" and that is the extent of their experience in table games. It is one thing to know the payouts, moves, keys, check cutting, etc... But get thrown on a jam-up crap game with checks flying at you from every direction (all late of course), 8 players to a side, 7 colors on the layout, and the newbie will get eaten alive. And when there's a beef it's been my experience that it's always solved right then and there in the dice pit, surveillance is useless at that point.

Blackjack is such an easy game to deal and observe, so no real prob there. Forte told me in his management days when they were short in the 21 pits they'd take a few of the girls working in the cage, go over the 21 dealing procedures with them, and have them dealing on live games within an hour or so. Anyone can do it.

Now when you get into this issue of "consulting" it's a bit mirky. Arguably one of the best consultants there ever was was this old-timer who never dealt or worked in the pit, because he couldn't! An old-school crossroader who worked in crews playing paint, coolers, card switching, gaffed dice, slot jackpots, you name it. After a stint in jail for busting slots he took a job walking the catwalks, got close to a few casino owners, and then turned to working as a consultant on security-related issues. Now there's a guy who knows a thing or two about beating the store from the outside.

Ultimately I think it comes down to personality and self-promotion. I will say, though, that if you want your client base to be casinos it helps to be able to have worked in their business, it will only get you respect. You can never know too much.
"...if you have to say you is, you ain't."--Jimmy Hoffa
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