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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Aronson Stack...Help!!! (8 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Damon Zale
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Mary that is really cool, I ought to try it . I already know the stack cold but I like the sound of this. I have a couple of non-magic uses for the stack already , and this is another:).
The most effective way I have been reciting the stack lately is in the GYM. What I do is 13 repetitions , and 4 sets of most exercises , and as I count the reps I recite a card. Since you got to count your reps during exercise, and it can get boring, I actually find my workouts a bit more fun now.
Mary Mowder
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Your way sounds more healthy dimazales.

- Mary Mowder
nlokers
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Anybody else have any solitaire type games they do to work on their stack. I've tried to make a variation on the solitaire game where you have all the cards facing away from you in your hands and then flip one at a time from the back to face you, instead of removing cards when you get matching pairs, I try to stick the card in the appropriate spot for the stack. That way I practice and when I'm done my stack is in order, so if anyone sees me I can say I'm playing solitaire.
Herr Brian Tabor
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Quote:
On 2010-08-10 14:34, Mary Mowder wrote:
I play a game of Solitaire using Aronson Stack.
-Mary Mowder


This is an amazingly great idea, Mary!
J-L Sparrow
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Quote:
On Aug 24, 2010, nlokers wrote:
Anybody else have any solitaire type games they do to work on their stack. I've tried to make a variation on the solitaire game where you have all the cards facing away from you in your hands and then flip one at a time from the back to face you, instead of removing cards when you get matching pairs, I try to stick the card in the appropriate spot for the stack. That way I practice and when I'm done my stack is in order, so if anyone sees me I can say I'm playing solitaire.


I like your idea, nlokers! After reading your post, I tried your idea yesterday. That is, starting with a shuffled deck, I spread out the cards (in my hands) with the faces away from me, and one at a time I turn the cards over, putting them in their proper location (relative to cards that are already turned over).

It's funny... for a long time I've sorted cards in a similar manner but with all the cards facing me. Naturally, using my method it eventually becomes difficult to track which cards have already been sorted. But with your method (starting with the cards facing away from me), it's easy to tell which cards still need to be sorted, as they still have their backs facing me.

I found your method to me quite fun to do, in addition to being good practice in learning and maintaining the stack order. Thank you for sharing it.

However, I'm not familiar with the solitaire game you're referring to -- the one where you remove cards when you get matching pairs. It sounds like it would be fun to try. (A quick Google search turned up "Strike Solitaire," but I don't think that's correct.) Do you know the name of the solitaire game you're referring to?
twistedace
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Some things that helped me were making connections and finding small patterns/similarities

2D, KD, 7D are together and are cards 13, 14, 15
2S and 9H are cards 41 and 42 - 2C and 9D are cards 51 and 52
6H is 39 and 6D is 49

I used some of Tamariz's techniques for memorization, but stuck with the Aronson stack. Good luck!
lcwright1964
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When Asi Wind workshopped with us in Toronto he emphasized what others have noted--that basically the stack position is simply is a card's other yet equally important name. It is like becoming fluent in a very simple foreign language with only 52 words. I happened to memorize Mnemonica and know it cold now (thanks to reinforcing multiple associations for each card as mentioned by Tamariz and in this discussion), but I have to admit I like several Aronson-dependent effects that don't need the stack to be memorized (e.g., Christ-Aronson Aces in Art Decko, the many four-of-a-kind productions and other effects in TTI) and acknowledge that memorizing Aronson too could be helpful. I know there is a lot of trepidation around memorizing more than one stack and moving between them, but when you think about it is just like learning three alternate names per card rather than two. Lots of people (at least outside the US) speak three or more languages, so it is doable. Those of us who use Phoenix decks are familiar with the "Poker Bingo" card in each deck that has Tamariz on one side and Aronson on the other discreetly laid out in what looks like a game. I care one of those in my pocket all the time. I hope to go against common wisdom and know both stacks well in time.
JanForster
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The Christ Aronson Aces are a strong routine which has been published already years ago on Simon's website. Of course, do not forget its main reason is to keep the stack intact!
I have written (and spoken...) so often that the main concept behind the MD is to learn a second and secret identity for each card and NOT any order or next or previous cards...we have to keep that in mind when starting memorizing as it helps to learn it properly. Order and so on are things which follow logically and secondary. If you know a secret identity you can do with it whatever is needed.

There is no real reason to learn a second stack unless you point to stack dependent creations which are seldom really strong. If you combine Si Stebbins with your MD you can create easily a second MD: just replace each card in your stack by the card which would be before that card in the Si Stebbins system. E. g., the JS got the stack number 1 in the Aronson Stack. Replace the JS by the 8H which would be the card before the JS in Si Stebbins (CHaSeD order)... So when you see the 8H you only have to think which card would follow in Si Stebbins, the JS. Therefore in this stack the 8H got the stack number 1. Jan
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nlokers
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@J-L Sparrow: Check out this link https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mg_NUe9QoRQ , this was the version I was referring to.
Poof-Daddy
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You may also want to pick up a deck of Phoenix Brand cards. One of the "advertising cards" in each deck is a "poker bingo" game card that has the Aronson stack on one side and Tamariz stack on the other side. A great "Hidden in plain sight cheat sheet" Also, if you have an Android device (phone or tablet) there is an app that recently reduced from $10 to $5 on the Google Play called "Stacked Deck" by montysmagic that is pretty good as a referecnce and learning tool for many stacks.

Vanishing Inc has a great starter ebook that is free called "Memories are made of this" by Simon Aronson and several lower priced books on the same stack.

Happy Hunting.

EDIT---ONE OF THESE DAYS, I AM GOING TO LOOK AT THE DATE OF THE OP AND TRY NOT TO EMBARRASS MYSELF (but I will leave this up in case someone new stumbles upon it) Smile
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Nicolino
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...it's never too late for helpful posts.
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EVILDAN
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Check out Geoff Williams "Aronson Stack For Everybody." I met him last weekend at The Gathering in CT. He claimed that you can learn the system in an hour. He's right. I learned the basics and was able to determine card and position with 95% accuracy within one hour. That was Tuesday and with his method fresh in my mind.

It's now Friday and after working a little more with it each day - maybe an hour, I still have 95% accuracy with position and card.

It's a great system. It makes sense. It makes use of graphic imagery and overlap.

I can't recommend it enough. I've looked at stack work before and it was too daunting for me to tackle. Not anymore.

http://gwilliamsmagic.wix.com/gwproducts#!aronson/c2yw

I figure in a few more days when I actually apply myself, I'll have this down where it becomes workable.
by EVILDAN....
"The Coin Board Book" - moves and routines with the coin panel board. - http://www.lybrary.com/the-coin-board-book-p-827955.html
"SLASHER - A Horror Whodunnit" - a bizarre close-up routine based on Bob Neale's "Sole Survivor."
PM me for more info.
"Zombie Town" - a packet effect about how a small town turned into zombies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJhcoJtyOM
RiderBacks
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I don't favor these sorts of memorization methods when it comes to learning a stack. The end goal should be kept in mind. You want each card associated with its number, and vice versa, without having to move through mnemonic tools. (Of course, you want more than that, but that's the first end goal.) I suppose that for stack work, a mnemonic system might help you initially feel more proficient than you are, and that could encourage you to continue to achieve more proficiency. You might get the sense that you're "making progress" more quickly, and that could perhaps be encouraging. But ultimately, you want to abandon the mnemonic system entirely (assuming the only point of using the system is to assist with memorizing the stack), so why waste time learning something you want to leave behind in the first place?

Most serious sleights require infinitely more practice than memorizing a stack via pure brute force. But you don't need to opt for pure brute force either while avoiding adding an unnecessary and soon to be abandoned system to your learning process. I do question those who use systems to memorize stacks. I wonder, for example, what kind of work they put into sleights that they can't put into memorizing a stack. I say knuckle down and do it right without wasting time learning stuff that won't help you in the future. But perhaps that's just me.
alicauchy
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Quote:
On Nov 27, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
I don't favor these sorts of memorization methods when it comes to learning a stack. ...
But ultimately, you want to abandon the mnemonic system entirely (assuming the only point of using the system is to assist with memorizing the stack), so why waste time learning something you want to leave behind in the first place?

I do not agree on this. It is certainly a useful way to learn a stack, that's enough to adopt the method; similarly, it always pays back to use a scaffolding in order to restore a building, even when after finishing you will have to remove absolutely.

Quote:
I say knuckle down and do it right without wasting time learning stuff that won't help you in the future.

Once again, I disagree. There are lots of (daily) uses for a mnemonic system, although I discovered them only after having learnt the system
So much to do, so little time . . .
Steve Suss
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Quote:
On Nov 27, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
I don't favor these sorts of memorization methods when it comes to learning a stack. The end goal should be kept in mind. You want each card associated with its number, and vice versa, without having to move through mnemonic tools. (Of course, you want more than that, but that's the first end goal.) I suppose that for stack work, a mnemonic system might help you initially feel more proficient than you are, and that could encourage you to continue to achieve more proficiency. You might get the sense that you're "making progress" more quickly, and that could perhaps be encouraging. But ultimately, you want to abandon the mnemonic system entirely (assuming the only point of using the system is to assist with memorizing the stack), so why waste time learning something you want to leave behind in the first place?

Most serious sleights require infinitely more practice than memorizing a stack via pure brute force. But you don't need to opt for pure brute force either while avoiding adding an unnecessary and soon to be abandoned system to your learning process. I do question those who use systems to memorize stacks. I wonder, for example, what kind of work they put into sleights that they can't put into memorizing a stack. I say knuckle down and do it right without wasting time learning stuff that won't help you in the future. But perhaps that's just me.

Totally disagree! Mnemonics is a tool to help learn the stack in the first place. Once you learn the stack the mnemonics disappear and with practice you will know your stack cold.
A mnemonic system has many uses for magic as well as life. I've been using it for almost 50 years and it's use can never be under estimated. It's certainly not a waste of time. I would highly recommend any of Harry Loraynes work as so many others have used successfully. I believe Aronson uses it in his book that teaches his stack. Once you spend the short time to learn the system I believe mnemonics is the easiest and shortest way to memorize a random deck of cards.
RiderBacks
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I predicated my response on the explicitly stated assumption that the only point of using the mnemonic system is to memorize the stack. If you want to gain familiarity with mnemonic systems for other purposes, and don't already have that familiarity, then my points wouldn't apply. There is no question that you'll want a mnemonic system to memorize a random deck of cards other than your working stack. That would, of course, be outside the scope of my remarks, and if that's your goal, I would strongly encourage you to learn a mnemonic system. As someone has pointed out, "once you learn the stack, the mnemonics disappear and with practice you will know your stack cold." I prefer to aim straight for knowing the stack cold, as opposed to learning a system I'm going to abandon. My brain doesn't need extra useless information running around in it.
EVILDAN
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I, meaning just "me," don't consider learning a system to be useless information.
If you learn that the first card in a stack is the Jack of Spades. What happens if one day you blank out and can't remember what the first card is? Do you have anything to fall back on? Can you reverse engineer it?
Right now I have the base build of the system in my head. In time I'll know the stack cold. But if I ever forget a card, or its position in the stack, I know I can go back, work the system and get the info I need.
Pretty useful. At least I think so.
by EVILDAN....
"The Coin Board Book" - moves and routines with the coin panel board. - http://www.lybrary.com/the-coin-board-book-p-827955.html
"SLASHER - A Horror Whodunnit" - a bizarre close-up routine based on Bob Neale's "Sole Survivor."
PM me for more info.
"Zombie Town" - a packet effect about how a small town turned into zombies. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nzJhcoJtyOM
Geoff Williams
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The great thing about mnemonics is that you can get up to speed faster than with just brute memorization.

Simon himself used mnemonics but, as he said, after working with the stack awhile, the mnemonics seem to drop away and you are left with their associations. He told me he doesn't even remember the pegwords he used originally.

I prefer to keep the mnemonics fresh because I can use them as hooks in other effects (especially handy when needing to remember multiple cards or a series of selections in order).

Still, the mnemonics have dropped away from the stack mem portion. I now think of cards and their "nicknames" (i.e., the Queen of Hearts' nickname is 26, 40 is the nickname for the 3 of Clubs, etc.).

But pictorial mnemonics got me there (and got me there fast).


Geoff
"Saját légpárnás tele van angolnák."

(Hungarian for "My hovercraft is full of eels")
RiderBacks
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Quote:
On Dec 1, 2015, Geoff Williams wrote: The great thing about mnemonics is that you can get up to speed faster than with just brute memorization.


Maybe, Maybe not. The baseline minimum for being "up-to-speed" is instant recall from both card-to-number or number-to-card without reliance on any mnemonic system. People are different. Perhaps a mnemonic system helps some people get to the minimum baseline faster. Of course, the minimum baseline is not all you want to aim for. But again, people are different. I prefer brute force. Not all will.. I'd rather not clog my brain with stuff I will later lose. But YMMV. Different strokes for different folks. However, you aren't up-to-speed if you have to work out the number of a card by relying on a mnemonic device.
Cain
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Quote:
On Nov 27, 2015, RiderBacks wrote:
I don't favor these sorts of memorization methods when it comes to learning a stack. The end goal should be kept in mind. You want each card associated with its number, and vice versa, without having to move through mnemonic tools. (Of course, you want more than that, but that's the first end goal.) I suppose that for stack work, a mnemonic system might help you initially feel more proficient than you are, and that could encourage you to continue to achieve more proficiency. You might get the sense that you're "making progress" more quickly, and that could perhaps be encouraging. But ultimately, you want to abandon the mnemonic system entirely (assuming the only point of using the system is to assist with memorizing the stack), so why waste time learning something you want to leave behind in the first place?

Most serious sleights require infinitely more practice than memorizing a stack via pure brute force. But you don't need to opt for pure brute force either while avoiding adding an unnecessary and soon to be abandoned system to your learning process. I do question those who use systems to memorize stacks. I wonder, for example, what kind of work they put into sleights that they can't put into memorizing a stack. I say knuckle down and do it right without wasting time learning stuff that won't help you in the future. But perhaps that's just me.


Well, I agree.

Just do it.
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