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allinking17 New user 24 Posts |
Hey there, I'm not really sure where this goes, so I thought I would post it here.
I am doing a research project for school on magic. The basis of my research project is this: Why is magic different than other arts in the fact that the audience knows they are going to be deceived but still enjoy magic anyways. Basically my class is all about literary forgers and fakers. I am just exploring why lying and deceiving in magic is accepted as opposed to literature and other mediums. My question to you all is which magic books/ professional magicians have put out some good books on the nature of deception in magic, and why the audience accepts it. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks |
sethb Inner circle The Jersey Shore 2719 Posts |
The book "Strong Magic" by Darwin Ortiz has some excellent essays about magic, and how and why people can be deceived. Click HERE for more info. Another good book is John Carney's "Book of Secrets," which I believe is now out of print.
But it should be pretty clear that the audience expects a magic trick to fool or mystify them. Plagarism and forgery, on the other hand, are crimes. SETH
"Watch the Professor!!" -- Al Flosso (1895-1976)
"The better you are, the closer they watch" -- Darwin Ortiz, STRONG MAGIC |
Kimura Special user 519 Posts |
Ive said it before and I'll say it again, ascanio ascanio ascanio
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Pizpor Elite user 476 Posts |
"The Psychology of Deception (Why Magic Works)" by Jason Randal, Ph.D., is a doctoral level dissertation on the topic. It's very insightful for your research.
But on the other hand, I think John Carney sums it up pretty well in his book "Magic by Design" when he says, "it's not the spectator's job to suspend his disbelief; it is the magicians duty to create an atmosphere where this is effortless." In other words, as in all theater, magicians create the climate where there is an expectation of deception. How well it is presented will relate to how well it was perceived by the audience. |
Turk Inner circle Portland, OR 3546 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-29 18:33, Pizpor wrote: WOW!! I thought that I was the only person who owned a copy of this book!! I purchased it waaaay back when from either Stephen Minch (when he was operating Micky Hades in Seattle) or Jeff Busby (when he was in his heyday was selling magic to the masses on a monthly basis via a newsletter). Gotta dig that book back out again and re-read it once more. Thanks for the reminder.
Magic is a vanishing Art.
This must not be Kansas anymore, Toto. Eschew obfuscation. |
Bill Hegbli Eternal Order Fort Wayne, Indiana 22797 Posts |
Dariel Fitzkee The Trick Brain, I believe would fall into this catagory. As well as his other 2 books.
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Pizpor Elite user 476 Posts |
After a little checking, I think that book I mentioned is probably going to be hard to find. There is some current research listed on this site: http://macknik.neuralcorrelate.com/
I liked the article: Attention and awareness in stage magic: turning tricks into research by Macknik, et. al. Good luck with your research. |
duanebarry Special user 883 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-28 19:22, allinking17 wrote: How is fiction not pleasurable deception? An extra level of deception can exist in fiction as well -- in particular, fiction with unreliable narrators might be of special interest to your project. Agatha Christie's _The Murder of Roger Ackroyd_ is practically a magic trick. The unreliable narrator in _Pale Fire_ by Vladimir Nabokov is also famously celebrated as enjoyable. For film, you might consider The Sixth Sense. Structurally, that film is a magic trick. |
hbwolkov Inner circle 2947 Posts |
Another endorsement of Darwin Otiz's Strong Magic.This is a wonderful book.
Northern California
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ricardo carpenter Regular user 107 Posts |
The essays in "the Books of Wonder" are very good, especially the ones about misdirection and the routining.
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noble1 Special user 651 Posts |
Magic by Design, John Carney
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RiffRaff Special user 671 Posts |
Teller has some great theories...but he ain't talkin'
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Steven Steele Chief of Staff 1868 Posts |
'Magic in Theory' by Peter Lamont and Richard Wiseman
'The Psychology of Deception (Why Magic Works)' by Jason Randal, PhD The Fitzkee Trilogy (well, the last two books...especially the last one) These books focus on the theory of magic. Other books mentioned above are great for the theory of performance and technique, but these two will expose you to the theories as to why magic works.
Coram Deo
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Skylippo New user 37 Posts |
Check out this link
Magic and the Brain: Teller Reveals the Neuroscience of Illusion http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries......eofmagic |
Kentrell New user Cleveland, OH 72 Posts |
It seems that you are specifically looking for information on why people accept magic, not why magic works. Many of the books recommended discuss the later, which I do not think you are interested in for this particular project, at least. "Magic and Meaning" by Burger and Neale might help you by exploring the history behind deception and how it developed.
I'm sure there are others; can anyone think of any books that might address "why people accept magic"? Like the above book, I think most would be addressing the evolution of "accepted" deception through history, what role it played, and how that evolved into a theatrical performance. Any thoughts along this line? Off of your question: you are comparing literary forgers not being accepted to deception in magic being accepted. That is going to be very tough to pull off in a written paper b/c one is basically plagiarism (I think that's what you are talking about), while the other is creating illusion through secret means (and more often than not, claiming no "magical" abilities), which is not that different from movie making or the whole spectrum of live performance where disbelief is suspended. That is, theft versus theater. It is going to be very hard to make a rational argument comparing these as they are SO inherently different. Psychic readings or early forms of magic/mentalism/spiritualism might offer a better comparison for a research project. Just a thought. Kentrell |
RogueMD Regular user 133 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-11-30 17:02, RiffRaff wrote: Hah...very good! (And probably VERY true!) |
John Gordon New user 7 Posts |
Hi allinking17
You already now have some excellent rsources on the presentation of magic but I'm not certain this will be all the help you need. Indeed, I believe that the argument is actually flawed! >> Why is magic different than other arts in the fact that the audience knows they are going to be deceived but still enjoy magic anyways. I don't believe that it IS different in this respect. People view many (most?) with the acceptance that it isn't real. We all create our own realities anyway, and arts offer us new avenues and vehicles to explore these and perhaps act as a catalyst for others. Audiences know a painting is not real. Or a novel. Or a play. The joy is in viewing other's interpretations and / or suspending our disbelief so that we join them on the fantasy journey. Doing this enable us to leave our realities and go higher, broader, deeper. This is why magic is enjoyed by some .... engage and join on an impossible (maybe improbable) journey. But it isn't unique in the respect your question states. Does an audience truly believe that the effect claimed actually happened? In most cases, I don't think so. However, all perfromers get questions asking whether it IS real or not, but the people to ask to get your answers are the audience! >> I am just exploring why lying and deceiving in magic is accepted as opposed to literature and other mediums. It's not! 'The map is not the territory' but we can use it to expand blinkered states and entertain. Finally .... if you were to gather anything useful, I'd recommend looking into the origins. This will entail looking at the royal courts, religion, alchemy and the use of magic as a powerful tool, before it became mere entertainment. Unfortunately, apart from my own work, I've found very little on this in print. Good luck John Gordon MagicWorks Disappearing Nightly!
J O H N G O R D O N
Disappearing Nightly! |
Jon Allen V.I.P. England 1771 Posts |
I am wondering what other art forms you may be comparing magic. People go to the cinema knowing full well the sci-fi film they are going to watch is not a documentary. They are perfectly happy to suspend their belief for a few hours and accept alien lifeforms, spacecraft or even the fact that actors get killed. The same, to a lesser extent, goes for theatre productions. Even singers fool us because most don't sound anything lie what they do on their albums.
It always makes me smile when people say to me they don't like being fooled. I think what magic suffers from, compared to other art/entertainment forms, is that people assume that magic is ALL ABOUT fooling them. I would suggest that for many magicians, magic is about fooling people. There is little effort given to the theatrical elements or the thoughts of the audience. It's why the Masked Magician was so bad for magic. It was not because he was giving methods aay but he diminshed magic to the level of "Look how the magician fools you". If you watch a boring film, you will start to search for things away from the stroy, character development and dialogue. You'll notice the extras, the scenery and maybe wonder how they do certain effects. It's the same with magic. If you do not give them anything else apart from doing something they can't figure out how it's being done, it's no wonder people simply feel like they are being fooled.
Creator of iconic magic that you will want to perform.
The Silent Treatment, The Pain Game, Paragon 3D, Double Back, Destination Box and more. Available at www.onlinemagicshop.co.uk |
Mark R. Williams Regular user 193 Posts |
John & Jon,
I very much agree with both of you. A course in theatrical studies would do many a magician well............ Magic is not really any different from the rest of the theatrical arts. Many magi are a little to "in your face" and "I gotcha" to be really entertaining. Being fooled is not what people really want......... the ENTERTAINING "suspension of disbelief" is what is required. First and foremost people want to be ENTERTAINED!!! Entertainment in all its forms allows people a respite from the everyday world and their existence in it. Make a person forget THEIR problems and troubles for even a few minutes and you will be their friend forever!!!!! Regards,
"One more step on the pathway of Knowledge, that is if we don't break our leg crossing the street"
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