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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Getting into Aronson - suggestions? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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aktino
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Some time ago, I decided to take the plunge and learn Aronson. This was actually far easier than I had anticipated and it opened up a new world of possibilities. That said, I have found that I do not use the stack as often as I would like to, for a very simple reason: I think its a real pain to set up the deck. My style (and my skills) are such that I cannot keep the stack "alive" for extended periods of time. So I find myself re-setting the stack quite frequently. Against this background, I'd be curious to hear how you guys go about setting upp the deck as quuickly as possible. For the avoidance of doubt,I'm not looking to get from NDO to AS, it is rather "from any old mess" to AS. Thanks.
FredNarlo
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WOW! I feel that the power behind using Arons's stack is very much well worth the little bit of "effort" to set it up beforehand. Ever considered just doing a deck switch when you are ready to do your MD effects?

Consider this...the majority of MD effects do NOT have to have the ENTIRE deck in its stack to make the effect work. I do a particular effect that usually only uses about the top 40 cards and the remaining twelve never get touched. Many routines you don't have to have all the cards in their stack positions, just ever how many you need for the effect.

FOr example, The Invisible Cards eems to be really popular! Lets say you have the top 36 cards in order and the rest are just scattered in the remaining botttom 16 cards. Ask for a card to be thought of, if they name say the QD, you can go right into the routine as ths is just card 21, which is within your partial stack. If they name say 6S which is 44, then you can just now take that card out and go any other routine in your aresenal.

Aronson speaks of this in his books...having only a partial stack and still doing miracles. Some of his best gems and thoughts are hidden in the depths of the book that people overlook.

As for getting into Aroson Stack from NDO...if I knew how to do it, I would tell nobody, ever! LOL
MemDeck329
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Grin and bite the bullet. Smile Yes, it is a Royal PITA to set up the deck(s). I buy 13 Bicycle decks at a time for about $1.12 each. I like to break-in each deck with some real and false shuffles, false cuts, faros, and pressure fans.

For me, brand new cards are slippery little devils. When they "feel right" I set up several decks at the same time. Having several decks ready to roll is a nice security blanket. And, you can never get too much practice with the shuffles and cuts.

Some very sharp minds have worked on this problem for many years. So far, the Holy Grail is still out of reach.
Double J
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A deck switch when ready is the way to go. If it's too much trouble for you to set up, then it's probably not for you.
MemDeck329
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Yes, the stark reality of "too much trouble"....

Setting the stack is a good review for me. Many fine effects require some work. The torn-and-restored newspaper can take longer to set up than to perform. I spent many hours learning to split cards to make up DF, DB, etc. But, it's impossible to do certain things without the preparation.

Either the final impact is worth the work, or it isn't.

"Hungry and Homeless, will set up stacks for food!!!"
Double J
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2 1/2 minutes. Yes, Just set-up in 2 1/2 minutes from a shuffled deck. Gotta agree, that's much, too much time to waste with the mem deck. I would abandon it all together. Besides, the effects that go along with it aren't very good anyway.

I would go for a good ACR.
MemDeck329
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Aktino, none of us are trying to give you a hard time. We all wish there were an easier way. But, dang it, it just isn't so.....
JanForster
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Quote:
On 2009-11-29 19:34, Double J wrote:
Besides, the effects that go along with it aren't very good anyway...


I couldn't disagree more. Probably you are not enough into the stuff. With a memdeck you can do things that are as close as possible to the truly impossible. Jan
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Double J
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Quote:
On 2009-11-30 06:13, JanForster wrote:
Quote:
On 2009-11-29 19:34, Double J wrote:
Besides, the effects that go along with it aren't very good anyway...


I couldn't disagree more. Probably you are not enough into the stuff. With a memdeck you can do things that are as close as possible to the truly impossible. Jan


Sniff Sniff! I smell sarcasm... At least I thought it was apparent. So I agree with your disagree.
JanForster
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Smile... no, but nice that you agree with my disagree Smile Jan
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aktino
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Re-reading my OP, I realise that my question probably did not come across as I had intended. I have no objection whatsoever to putting in time and effort where it leads to meaningful results, and MD work is definitely such an area. So, again, I am completely with you on that. My question was really on a simpler level, ie. even with a complete commitment the MD, there is a certain amount of donkey work needed to set the AS and is there any clever way to organise this to streamline the process. For example, in your view, is it quickest to separate colours first, then suits or go straight into the suits? etc etc. I hope that clarifies my question. Thanks.
JanForster
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If you spread a new deck in new deck order and you know your stack well (as you should anyhow...) it will take you not longer than 1 minute to stack your deck. Believe me, for me it doesn't take longer. Of course, practice will help... Jan
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jcigam
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Having the suits separated, is certainly a faster way to arrange the deck; however, only if the deck is already separated (i.e. just opened a new deck). Otherwise, you are arranging the deck twice, once by suit, and then stacking the deck. If the deck is already in a shuffled state it’s just as easy to go ahead and stack it. Of course this is merely my opinion and what works for me.

Good luck learning and using the stack. It really is one of my favorite things in magic.

Jered
"The mind has exactly the same power as the hand, not merely to grasp the world, but to change it."
Scott Cram
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Aktino, if you're really gutsy, and want to start from a mixed deck, and want to finish in Aronson stack, check out "The Subtle Game" in Jean Hugard’s “Encyclopedia of Card Tricks”.

There's an updated version of it on Dennis Loomis' site.
Double J
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Setting up from a shuffled deck took 2-1/2 minutes without trying very hard. The first 26 cards take longer than the last 26 for obvious reasons.
Doug McKenzie
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Either adapt all of ur routines to maintain the stack (which isn't that difficult with a little bit of thought), use 2 decks, or use a routine where you can stack infront of the audience.
fyi2
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Jcigam is right, I set my decks out in suits and then organize them while watching TV. I throw half a dozen in my gig case at a time and I am ready to go. (At the moment I use BCS, but I am sure the principal applies to other stacks)
Dennis Loomis
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As Jan points out, it's very fast to set up AS from a new deck order. But, usually you will be working with a shuffled deck. Here's the way I do it. I hold the cards in my hands and spread them from my left hand into my right. I'm going to stack the deck from #52 to # 1, so as I spread I'm looking for the highest 4 or five cards of the deck. As I come to the 9D, 2C, QC, 6D, and QS, I upjog them. Should I come to the 9D first, I cull it to the bottom of the deck. Otherwise I upjog the others and cull the 9D when I come to it. If I've already upjogged the 2C, I'll return to it and cull it to the bottom and them continue looking for the others. Once cards 52 and 51 are on the bottom, I'll start looking for the other cards in the forties. Always, when I come to the "next" bottom card I'll cull it to the bottom and then look at the upjogged cards to see if I have the next one. This process is continued moving downward through the stack. It gets faster and faster as you have to look through less and less cards as your stack takes shape. The whole process takes place in the hands and no table is used. This is probably not the very fastest way to proceed, but it goes quite quickly, it drills you on the card sequences, and you get lots of practice on your cull. I take two decks to a gig, and both are set in Aronson stack to start with. I have one simple rule for myself... should a spectator ever offer to shuffle the cards, I hand him the deck and allow him to do so. To refuse or even to hesitate will be suspicious. I have plenty of things I can do with a shuffled deck, so this is NOT a serious problem. As someone mentioned above, you can always do "A Subtle Game" and restore the deck with the spectators help. I always have some non-card magic in my pockets when doing strolling, and if I don't want to do A Subtle Game immediately, I just put the deck away and do a coin trick, or a rope trick, or a handkerchief trick. Then when I wish, I can take out the "same" deck but it's the still stacked one and do some more memdeck magic.
Dennis Loomis
Itinerant Montebank
<BR>http://www.loomismagic.com
The Futurist
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Cheers, Dennis - I'll give that culling thing a try. You're absolutely right, it is very important to be flexible and have some material that can work with a spectator-shuffled deck. Which is why, in addition to having the deck stacked, I also like to have it marked Smile and stripped too: the subtler things that are possible with a stripper deck (setting up key cards, etc.) make it a valuable tool IMHO.
Loz
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I'm currently working on a computer program to sample a series of overhand and milk shuffles and cuts from new deck order to see how close I can get to Aronson. Without using milk shuffles and starting from NDO, a systematic search of 5 shuffles and two well chosen cuts I can only get 9 cards in the correct Aronson position.

All this hassle has been making me want to learn Tamariz as well although I always fear I will get the two stacks confused in the heat of the moment!

I'll keep you all posted how the computer search goes! (It may take....15 yrs)

Loz
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