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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » You Oughta Be In Pictures » » 3 Fly Revealed - sort of (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

funsway
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old things in new ways - new things in old ways
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Check out this approach to 3Fly or Coins Across

http://s563.photobucket.com/albums/ss76/......ngle.flv

palms up, hands never touch, open show of both hands between transports

a special thanks to Tim, Scott and Mb for making this happen
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
TC Ryder
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Very nice and clean. I loved it.
Great effect.

TC
www.realcoinmagic.com

"Real Coins for Real Magicians"
Rich Cupcake
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Excellent post. Shows a great amount of skill.
A truly wonderful performance. Thanks for posting.

-Rich
Mb217
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Yes very good work by funsway, some terrific thinking. I hope all you guys check this out, it's well worth it and quite thorough. Good job funsway. Smile
*Check out my latest: Gifts From The Old Country: A Mini-Magic Book, MBs Mini-Lecture on Coin Magic, The MB Tanspo PLUS, MB's Morgan, Copper Silver INC, Double Trouble, FlySki, Crimp Change - REDUX!, and other fine magic at gumroad.com/mb217magic Smile


"Believe in YOU, and you will see the greatest magic that ever was." -Mb Smile
gdw
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I can't seem to see a video. Can someone help me out? Thanks.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
funsway
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I just checked and the link above works
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Rich B.
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Funsway...I appreciate most of your posts on the Café as they are very thought provoking. However, I could not get any sense of amazement with how the video was produced with stop action shots. Of course the concept of the hands never touching doing a coins across routine is great. Perhaps a video in real time would be better.

Rich B.
gdw
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Quote:
On 2009-12-10 08:32, Rich B. wrote:
Funsway...I appreciate most of your posts on the Café as they are very thought provoking. However, I could not get any sense of amazement with how the video was produced with stop action shots. Of course the concept of the hands never touching doing a coins across routine is great. Perhaps a video in real time would be better.

Rich B.


Yeah, that's what I see. A slide show.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

"You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one."

I won't forget you Robert.
funsway
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Well, all videos are slide shows at 18 frams a second, but I am glad you brought this up. The reasons for doing it this way -- you choose the priority.

* my hands are partially paralized and I can't do a long routine without cramps and dropping coins -- so, I can't shoot a video that will do the effect credit.

* I will be selling this effect as an Ebook and have no intention of having people try and replicate, it get it wrong, and mess it up for everyone else.

* any video I did shoot would be "less than best" and either reveal too much of method, or cause people to loose interest.

* too many videos are just ego proclamations for the sake of other magicians -- a game I do not wish to play. The value of this approach is not in how well I can do it, but the innovative sleights, moves and situational advantage.

* the quality of the photos is much better

* each frame of the Step-Video can be used in the instructions to avoid any confusion over timing or hand position.

* I want to establish a standard that I can sustain in all of my eBooks.

* I personally feel that watching a video is not the best way to learn anything. If I do ever get a "run-time video" it will be available to purchasers of the eBook after they have read and practiced the moves and are moving into "presentation" questions.

* my wife is blind and my parents I care for are 89 years old -- so there is no one to shoot the video but me. A proper video would require zoom shots that are not possible for me.

* the Sleights rely heavily on "Inattention of Vision," "Patterns of Performance," "Directed Attention," and "Attention Enforecment" -- none of which can appear on a video.

* the greatest value of this routine is learning Sleights and Moves that can be used in other effects. Any attemtp to emulate a particular video would stifle the buyer's creativity.

* for the $12.40 I plan to charge you're lucky to get even this ;-)
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Ben Train
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Funsway,

The idea is an interesting one but there's a problem. All you are showing us is the final states, nothing about how you get there (and I understand this was done intentionally). The problem with this is that almost ALL 3-flys end with similar positions- what separates them is how you get there.

I also said "almost" all, because the truth is that some versions have more attractive end positions- uniform hand positions, more open hand positions, etc.

So, while I applaud your creativity there's nothing here that would generate any interest (sales-wise) in anyone sane.

But, I love you, so here's a suggestion: why not teach the routine to one of the accomplished coin magicians on the Café and let them perform it on video? They should be able to do it justice and we'll get to see the clever construction.

Just some thoughts.
Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
funsway
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Ben, I have thought of these problems -- and need more contemplation to resolve some of these issues. Part of it is trust. WHat has ahppened to it? People will spend hundreds on a new package effect in the hopes it will live up to expectations, but will not trust that my eBook will deliver what I say. If a person cannot 'visualize' the power of this routine, then how are they ever going to create that 'visualization' in a spectator? Another issue not mentioned is that the Sway Moves involved require body movements not easily captured by a single lens view of reality. If I move about as I would before a live audience I will be 'out of frame' in a video -- and so will any 'accomplished performer'. Thus, and video will not be a true representation of the effects. 'tis a problem!

Of course, it being my creation, I think that the ability to do any coins across routine with your hands never touching should be worth the price. Check with Mb -- he understands the methods, but also that they will not work with his closed in performance style. Maybe showing part of it 'live action' will be enough.

Thanks for the interest.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Ben Train
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It's interesting you bring up trust. I NEVER doubt that someone releasing something isn't releasing something they think is good- in other words I "trust" you mean well. But, that means nothing about the quality of a product.

"Trust me" is never a compelling sales pitch, unless you're a guy who has an established track record in my book. If Juan Tamariz told me to buy something, and his pitch was "trust me" I would do it. You and I have never had the pleasure of meeting, or sharing ideas, so isn't it logical I would need a little more?

Ben
If you're reading this you're my favourite magician.

Check out www.TorontoMagicCompany.com for all sorts of FREE VIRTUAL PROGRAMMING for magicians!
funsway
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When I released this video it wasn't intended as a 'sales pitch' -- just a demonstration of a new approach. Now people have asked to buy it. I appreciate everyone's input as to how to best market it within the limits of what I can do.

For the last five months I have offered eBooks at No Charge to magicians willing to commit to giving me feedback as to the clarity of the material, appropriatness of photos, impact on the audience, etc. Many were willing to get these effects. To date less that 27% of those getting the eBooks have responded or attempted to meet their commitment. Trust? I am now guessing on how best to present entirely new concepts in eBooks, what to charge, how much to include and where to focus my energy. Somehow, "Show me a video" isn't the answer I need. I need some evidence that people will learn better from having a video. The Step-Video approach is a compromise/balance. Do I spend my time producing videos or documenting new effects? It isn't about selling eBooks -- it's about getting the effects performed.

How about this approach. I charge $50 for an Ebook. When you send back proof that you studied it you get a $10 rebate. When you prove you have practiced and mastered it you get another $15 rebate. When you send proof you actually performed it in public you get $20 back -- so it only cost $5.00
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
funsway
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Until then it's just a guess. Right now buyers seem happy with $12.40 --
which will probably go to $20 if I add video support. I'll know in a couple of weeks.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
sclitsome
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Hahah. What a waste of time.

At first I thought it was serious. Then I watched it and was like ok, HAHA good joke. (not really)
but then I read further and you ARE ACTUALLY SERIOUS?

Might I suggest wearing pants?

There is no way someone would buy this considering the video. Your excuses about misdirection and body movement not being able to be captured on video has not hindered the thousands of people who have made magic videos in the past. Did you come up with some new form of hypnosis that makes people not catch your moves?

Besides the fact that you are telling people how they should learn, my favourite point you brought up was:

"* the greatest value of this routine is learning Sleights and Moves that can be used in other effects. Any attemtp to emulate a particular video would stifle the buyer's creativity."

You are contradicting yourself many times over.
Good luck.
funsway
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Quote:
On 2009-12-19 17:51, sclitsome wrote:
There is no way someone would buy this considering the video.


You seem to have missed the entire purpose of this thread -- to demonstate a new approach to doing 3Fly type effects. I wasn't trying to teach anything or sell anything.

But then, some people were interested in buying it(based on this video), even though I do not have the still and video teaching components completed -- they bought it anyway. So, there are those who will buy a concept without a video, and a book without reading it first, and adopt a child they have never met.

Sorry you don't like my pants -- being crippled I wear what is comfortable and fits -- just like the magic I do.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst

eBooks at https://www.lybrary.com/ken-muller-m-579928.html questions at ken@eversway.com
Harv
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Looking forward to a review.....
MaxfieldsMagic
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If you can really get to the "final states" in real time without the hands touching, this definitely looks like a tremendous routine.

Funsway - I like the pants. Maybe you could include a pair in the limited edition boxed release.
Now appearing nightly in my basement.
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