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The Magic Cafe Forum Index ╗ ╗ Polly wants a cracker... ╗ ╗ General Grant Pockets (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Regan
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Anyone using these? I would like to get some thoughts about them. What size do you reccommend? I would need at least a double tier, but maybe a triple. I'm thinking maybe I should go with a triple even if I do not need it now I might in the future. Would having a triple tier pocket be a problem if only 2 were being used? I would appreciate your help with this.

Thanks!

Regan
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Dave Scribner
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Regan, I have these and have used them extensively in the past. While I promote almost everything Gen sells, I am more happy with Tony Clark Pockets. Gen doesn't use slick material which in my opinion is essential. The major advantage to Gen is that you don't have to sew multiple pockets and they come in one unit.

Gen doesn't usually sell the triple tier. You have to look ahead with what you are going to do. If you have and use a triple, then you must have at least a double on the other side to balance out your appearance. That means you are body loading 5 birds. Nothing wrong with that but if you aren't going to do that, it's a bit overkill to get a triple tier.

Again, I would recommend using Tony Clark pockets and take the time to sew them in. It would be an easy task to add a third in the future.

Oh, I keep saying to sew them. That's just because that's the way I do it. You can pin them or use velcro if you want.
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Regan
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Thank you Dave. I watched General Grant's DVD and really liked his pocket concept. He was talking about the anti-drag feature, and about the 'slickness' of the pockets, and I thought he said they were satin turned inside-out. I loved the fact that they could be sewn in easier, and that they were already postioned. The positioning seemed like an advantage to a newbie like me, but I did notice on the tape that the double-tier pockets seemed like they were very close together. I did not see an example of the triple tier.

I also wondered if their design helped with the pulling of the jacket problem. It seemed it would, but I was not certain about that.

Having said all that, I got very excited about his pockets. So much so that I was ready to commit...even though I already had Tony's pockets. I do not have them in a jacket, and since they have not been not used I figured I could sell them, or maybe even keep them for pinning in some different jackets for practice, or whatever. I them thought that I should maybe seek advice here first, and I am glad I did. You have made me realize that I need to think about this a little more.

I want to try one of General's harnesses, but now I am not so sure about the pockets.

Regan
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GrahamFishman
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Gen Grant stuff is the best!! I love his bags but really love the pockets... they are made of satin, but it will get worn out after a few shows, in which case lining the pocket with packing tape it a great way to extend there life.
graham
Regan
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So Dave's pockets are not slick, but Graham's are made of satin. I could have sworn that General mentioned that he used satin and turned it inside-out so the pocket would be slick. I thought he mentioned how fast or smooth the dove would slide out. I only watched the DVD once, and it was a lot of information to absorb, so I may be mistaken.

I am just wondering if he uses different material, or if maybe he used to use one type but later switched. Hmmm......now I won't be able to sleep! Smile

Regan
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Michael J. Douglas
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Regan,
I've gotten quick responses through email. I'm sure you know, but it's GGMagic@aol.com

Let us know if you figure it out.
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Regan
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Thanks, Michael. Yes, he is very good to respond quickly. I may contact him before all is said and done. I wish I could hear some more reviews for users of his pocket first, so I will give a little time.
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Michael J. Douglas
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I can only go by pictures, including those in Dave's 'Love Your Doves' notes. Gen's look like they're made from a similar material to Bob's Dovelite pockets, although a thinner version of the material. Tony's look the best to me (sorry, Bob!), but that's means nothing coming from someone who's never used them! Smile
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Regan
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I believe General uses taffeta for his harnesses, but I'm not sure about the pockets. I have got to get Dave's lecture notes. My problem is downloading on this slooooooow dialup.
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Michael J. Douglas
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The notes are only 312KB. They shouldn't take a minute or two to download. Good info for only $10!

(You're welcome, Dave! What's my percentage? Smile )
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Dave Scribner
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Regan and all, if you compare Gen's pocket material to Tony Clarks, you'll see a big difference.Tony's are almost like silk on the inside. Gen's material in not the same and it is not silk turned inside out. Tony's is. The tiers on set on top of the other. They do not overlap top and bottom like single pockets do. One disadvantage to Gen's is that the pockets are set and cannot be adjusted. With a single pocket likt Tony's, it can be adjusted to any angle that is comfortable for you.

If you attach Gen's pockets correctly, the bottom of the bottom pocket will be about level with your navel. The second one will be approximately 5" higher and the 3rd, 5"s higher than that. That puts the upper pocket starting at about nipple level angling upwards. Now picture that and think about pulling your dove out smoothly. You either have a very low pocket to start with or an high upper one. Tony's pockets overlap top and bottom so with 3 pockets, the upper one is about at the beginning of your rib cage. Of course all of this depends on your actual height.

Gen harnesses are taffeta. Graham, I used Gen's pockets for years and they never wore out. I don't know what would cause them to do that. You have two slick materials sliding against each other and they should not show wear for many years.

Like the pocket with packing tape can be done but a much easier method is simply to cut a sheet protector from a notebook to a size small enough to fold in half and slide into the pocket. A piece of double stick tape at the back will hold it in place. Be careful with this method though as the dove and harness will almost shoot out of the pocket.

Regan, my notes download quite easily but if you have a problem with it, I'd be glad to send you a hard copy. I could even put them on a disk if you want.

Thanks Michael, I'll keep a running tab on your commmission? Smile
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Dr. Solar
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Regan,

I've purchased many different styles and I find Gen's the best. I have the double tier, one for each side but I only use one side, one bird so far. They are slick on the inside, his bag fasteners are the best of all. Easy to load, easy to release.

Doc
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Dave Scribner
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I guess the bottom line is that both Gen's and Tony's pockets work well. Tony's is a little slicker but both serve the purpose well. The key difference is one can be adjusted for height and angle and the other cannot. Both are attached to the lining of the coat to prevent pulling.

Gen's are very similar to wearing a dove vest. The pockets are what they are and can't be adjusted. I use all 3 methods depending on the show I'm doing.
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Bill Hegbli
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Having had both, I believe Tony's are Superior in every way. I had a professional seamstress make the sets for me.

I gave Tony, copies of Johnny Brown's 3 tier model, don't know if he is making them but they are very comfortable for the birds. They allow not having to trim the tail feathers and are not tight on the birds.
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Dave Scribner
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Regardless of whose pockets are used, you should never have to trim the tail feathers of a dove to make it fit in a pocket. You should also never have to trim the tail feathers to make a dove fit in a harness. If you do, the harness is too small. The advantage of Gen harnesses are they are open at the rear allowing the tail to extend if necessary.
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Regan
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Wow, lots of good info. Difficult to decide, but since I already have Tony's pockets maybe I should stick with them for right now. I was semi-settled on another type, but I would like to give General's harnesses a try, but I guess I will hold off on the pockets.

Thank you all so much for helping me with this decision!

Regan

P.S. Dave, I want your lecture notes! If you think I can download them that will be fine. I could try it see, and if it doesn't work then we could go another route. When everything settles down a bit for me and I get a little more time I will contact you about payment, etc. Or if you get time you could go ahead and send me a PM and tell me how I can order them. Thanks!
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James Adamson
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One of the things that I like about Gen's pockets is that there is no sign of bulging in the jacket. Being attached the way they are you get a smooth natural look to your tux/jacket.

Also, the way they are attached there is less pulling seen in the steal.
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Dave Scribner
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To eliminate the "bulding" with Tony's pockets is to overlap them. In other words, in a stack of 3 pockets, the bottom of the middle one overlaps the top of the bottom one by about 2". The bottom of the top pocket overlaps the top of the middle pocket by about 2". When the pockets are loaded, there will be one smooth "bump".

Both Gen's and Tony's or anyone's pockets for that matter should be sewn to the lining of the jacket and not through to the actual jacket material. Sewing to the lining reduces the "pull" effect.
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Michael J. Douglas
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Has anyone tried sticking one side of Velcro inside your jacket, while sticking the other side to your dove? Seems like it would eliminate a lot of the hassle. Smile
Michael J.
´┐ŻBelieve then, if you please, that I can do strange things.´┐Ż --from Shakespeare´┐Żs ´┐ŻAs You Like It´┐Ż
Dave Scribner
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You learn something every day. That would solve the problem of pockets and harnesses wouldn't it Smile
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