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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Polly wants a cracker... » » General Grant Pockets (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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James Adamson
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Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL
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Yes, Michael, you just need White Velco for the Dove!! Smile
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Too bad white duct tape is so hard to find.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander
Bob Sanders

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AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
dove-boy
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Joe Yu (Stage Name)
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I bought several General Grant's Doube & Single Tier pockets in 1996.... 13 years back.

This is the BEST pockets in all aspects EXCEPT you need to trim the tail feathers cos is ONLY 10" long.

I used for many years till 2000 where I invested in many Andy Amyx, Dan Birch's pockets.....they are all made the same materials like the General Grant pockets.....BUT the special design in Dan Birch allows the dove to come out even FASTER due to its extra slant material

After that I use Birch pockets with GG design & I personally feel this is the BEST pockets a dove worker can have.

Along the way I also bought several others like Tony Clark,Dan Sperry.etc. BUT no kidding Tony perhaps used to make same materials like what GG uses...but this past few years...though he is still using Satin...but is a lower grade...no kidding, I bought Tony Clark & sells off soon....is not the correct materials even though is Satin.

The tape principal works but is extra work...if the pockets is made like GG material & Dan Birch design.....I personally have tested it comes out equally fast, if NOT faster, Not mentioned tape will damaged the satin material should you one day decide to remove it.

If you adding 2-3 doves on 1 side of the jacket...many dove workers overlapped their pockets...is clearly explain on Victor Cephas video BUT in fact if you apply GG overlapping technique, this even makes the bulging in the jacket BETTER than the normal overlapping.

All this are personal my views after 13 years of trial & error in dove magic.

Hope this helps Smile
dove-boy
Regan
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Quote:
On 2009-12-14 22:47, Bob Sanders wrote:
Too bad white duct tape is so hard to find.

Bob Sanders
Magic By Sander


Bob, Walmart stocks duct tape in many different colors now! You could even use it with colored doves! Smile

Thanks for all the responses! You have all been a great help, although I am still unsure of what I should do. You have given me lots to think about!

Regan
Mister Mystery
Bob Sanders
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Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama
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Regan,

Dave will tell you that I have also used pied doves. Do you have a source of spotted tape?

Bob
Bob Sanders

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AmazedWiz@Yahoo.com http://www.magicbysander.com/
Dave Scribner
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Dove-boy, 10" is a large dove. I don't think I've seen anyone use birds that large before.

I can't imagine why you think Tny's material is not as good as GG. He has been using the same satin material for years and there is no binding as the dove is removed.

I agree with you about lining the pocket with tape. That is pretty much a permanent solution. My recommendation if you want more speed, is to use a plastic sheet protector as I've mentioned before. This is cut to fit the bottom of the pocket and is easily removed.

I'm also confused with your comment about using the GG overlapping techique. His double and triple tier pockets do not overlap. They are sewn top to bottom at an angle. You could use two or three single tier pockets but that gets a little bulky sewing them to your jacket I think.

I think the bottom line here is that each dove worker has their favorite depending on what they do. As I mentioned earlier, I've used both GG's and Tony's pockets and find them both to work well. The difference in my opinion is the ability to change the angle of the pockets, the solution to overlapping and the slickness of the material.
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dove-boy
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Joe Yu (Stage Name)
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Hi Dave Smile

Is always my honour to chit chat dove magic with you cos you are the best Smile

anyway I re-measure....GG pocket is 9.5" exact, Tony is 11", many other pockets available on the market are 11" or longer.

The problem lies in GG pocket is only 9,5"...of course the dove is smaller...but if you place the dove in, you will understand...for GG pockets, the dove tails need to trim to avoid breakage...other 11" pocket no need to trim tails.

GG is not overlap...they are like what you mentioned sewn top to bottom...BUT I discover in 1996...this technique is simply the BEST...surpassed the overlapped technique...this really make your coat looks flat.... no sign of bulging in the jacket...I really salute GG for using this principal....I am still using now & there is no turning back Smile

Lastly, talking about satin pocket..not sure if anyone know this test. to see which material is the Slickest....place your thumb& middle finger & rub both the satin material together...Tony pocket is slick...but if you tried that on GG pocket or Dan Birch...is even slickest....your thumb & finger can immediate feel this.......some materials maybe looks slick, but this test will create some friction..hence is a no no....I am a perfectionst when come to pocket materials...I am very particular on this...

in fact if you have Andy Amyx pocket in 1998 & the current 2009...u can see there is a difference..hence there are 2 different kinds of materials..I feedback to Andy before...btw Andy Amyx is a great doveworker...in 1998..11 years back...he help me with correct dove coat design, various personal/private tape teach in, customised dove bags from materials Silksrus......

Above are my personal view on pockets, hope this helps Smile
Regan
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Dove-Boy, are your General Grant pockets made from tafita? If not, what? I am a little confused about this, and I am woindering if maybe General always uses the same material to make his pockets. I could have sworn on the DVD he syas they are made from satin and sewn inside-out. I could be wrong because I only watched the DVD once. I need to go back and check it again. I'm a little confused as to why some say Geraral Grant's pockets are slick and others say they aren't.
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Dave Scribner
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Dove-boy, yes I know the length of the pockets for both GG and Tony but my comment was on the size of the dove. I still think 10" is a large bird. My fully grown adult males are only 8" in length with full tails.

The overlapping is really only an issue if you use 3 birds on one side. GG's triple tier pocket cannot be adjusted for height and as I mentioned earlier, this means that the upper dove is very high on your chest. By overlapping Tony's pockets, you reduce that distance. By overlapping, the upper dove is actually resting right on top of the lower bird creating one smooth buldge. GG's tier pockets give you 2 or 3 distinct buldges.

Now to the audience, these buldges are really not visable unless you are closeup. I think both models have their places in the dove world.
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Regan
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Quote:
On 2009-12-15 11:28, Bob Sanders wrote:
Regan,

Dave will tell you that I have also used pied doves. Do you have a source of spotted tape?

Bob


Why yes! Go to Walmart and pick up some white duct tape.....and while you are there go to the office supply section and get some of Sharpies. They come in a lot of colors now! I know you love to use those on silks anyway so I'll bet you already have at least one of most colors! Smile

Regan
Mister Mystery
dove-boy
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Joe Yu (Stage Name)
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Hi Dave Smile

I must go & measure my dove...keke...cos the GG pockets always ruin my bird tail feather...btw, I have seen & used the doves persoanlly in USA supply by David, good friend of Amos Levoitch....yes, the doves when I used in USA is so much smaller...guess I feed my bird too much Smile

Back to Tony Clark, he is my ideo since young...however, his pocket placement never impress me.....if you watch 1994 Hank Lee conclave, Tony's coat distinctly shows a ripple (wave ) effect...as seen very clearly on the video...the video also shows his dove bag entirely tail stick out...hence is always wise to use a silk at the tail or taper the end of the dove bag, design by Bruno Ray(France)

hence you know where the dove is place...if you watch GG video, you will never see this....anyway, each person has his own view, I respect your view Dave Smile

Hope to discuss more dove magic with you Smile
Dave Scribner
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I agree about the tails of the dove sticking out the back of Tony's holder. I noticed that the first time I saw his video. For some reason, his holders are different sizes. I order several awhile back (a few years ago) and some were smaller than others. I don't use any of his holders. I prefer GG for those.
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magic mike
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Michael M.
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Hi Dave (Scribner),

I have Gen Grant's two tier pockets and the back of the pockets are closed. I had to open the back end by cutting it off with scissors, but only where the stitching is. I've had them since Nov. 2002. From what you said in one of your posts, GG's pockets are open at the back so as to allow a bird's tail feathers through without disturbing their appearance. Has General recently changed the back of the dove pockets by leaving them open.

Also, concerning the Tony Clark Dove Harness, is it a one hand release and does it open as easily as General's.

Thanks,
Mike J.
Channing Pollack is my idea of the perfect magician. For those of you that have not seen him perform, I recommend trying to get hold of a video of an old movie called "European Nights" made about 1959.
I was able to buy this video from Stevens Magic
Dave Scribner
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Mike, you misunderstood. Maybe I wasn't clear. GG's pockets are not open and the rear. His harnesses or bags are designed such that they are open at the tail end. That way if your bird does have a bit a long tail, it will protrude out the back. Some of Tony Clarks harnesses are open at the back for the same reason.

GG's harnesses are all made to open with one hand. The operation is very smooth. Just a small flick of the thumb and the harness opens. Tony's are a little more difficult to open with one hand. There are variations that open as soon as the harness leaves the pocket. He sells these so I don't want to go into detail about them.
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magic mike
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Michael M.
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Hi Dave,

You are absolutely correct, I realized that after I re-read your post, but only after I had sent my post. Sorry about that. I misread your post and confused the Pocket and the Harness.

I find by cutting the back end of the GG double tier pocket it allows a little more room. In this way the tail feathers can extend out beyond the back of the pocket. BTW, the bird won't slip out the back if the opening is not too big.
My doves measure 10" from head to tail. The length of the pocket is also 10".
This does not leave much room for the tail feathers, hence, the necessity to open the back end of the pocket. I hope I have explained it clearly since it's a bit difficult to describe without a drawing.

Mike J.

p.s. I see Gen quite often. I should mention this to him.
Channing Pollack is my idea of the perfect magician. For those of you that have not seen him perform, I recommend trying to get hold of a video of an old movie called "European Nights" made about 1959.
I was able to buy this video from Stevens Magic
Dave Scribner
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Lake Hopatcong, NJ
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Understood perfectly Mike and that makes sense if your birds are large. Gen and I are good friends but it's a little difficult to see each other since he's in Mass and I'm in NJ. Say hello for me next time you see him.
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James Adamson
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Deatsville - Holtville - Slapout, AL
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Down here in Alabama most of the Hardware stores have White "Duck" Tape! Anybody tried loading a Duck with that? Smile

Dave,

Gen Grant will be at The Winter Carnival next March. I will finally get to meet him!
Be remembered for performing what looks like MAGIC, not skill.
Regan
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I guess I need to measure my doves.
Mister Mystery
magicofrowhan
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I would recommend sewing them in especially if your ditching something heavy in them like I do I ditch a contact juggling ball in mine
Bill Hegbli
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When using most of the dove pockets I found that you have to trim the tail feather at least an inch. This will allow the bird to set in the pocket at the proper place.

My birds were 11" inches and I found the Johnny Brown/Tony Clark dove pocket the best design for dove pockets. I searched for a year an purchased many designs. Most if not all were to small including General Grants.
Vietnam Veteran 1967, Sgt. E-5

Graduate of Chavez College of Prestidigitation and Showmanship

"Magic With A Twist Of Comedy"
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