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RSD Special user Toronto, Ontario 534 Posts |
Let me define my stance. I'm not saying that these pastors are intentionally using the techniques that a hypnotist does. What I meant (and perhaps I was too vague), is that they use the same techniques that a hypnotist does. I doubt very much that these pastors have hypnosis training, or have even studied it. It's the "gift" that they have. Its the same gift that exectuves, CEOS, politicians, and other natural born leaders have. Most people would have no idea what we are discussing here. But as students of hypnosis we see it all around us. In fact we all probably use some sort of hypnotic techniques in our everyday lives subconsciencely or not, intentionally or not, and maybe not even aware of it. As a hypnotist, how many people have joked that you have "hypnotized" them to get what you want? or tell you that you are pretty convincing? You think that's coincedence? I think not. The fact that some pastors use techniques that are similar to hypnotists, doesn't make their actions right or wrong. that's who they are, and that is how they operate. Most of them, it comes natural to them, and that is how they have risen to the top of their game and where they are now.
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On 2009-12-18 08:48, Frank Russell wrote: Please continue to post. I'm sure no one is offended by your words or your opinion. We are having a healthy discussion to which you are contributing to. Knowledge is power. |
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TonyB2009 Inner circle 5006 Posts |
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On 2009-12-17 22:07, Frank Russell wrote: That's lovely, Frank. But what happens when you pass the age of seven? In the adult world this sort of nonesense does not stand up. The high-profile ministeries are scams. They are all about money - and dirty money, from an ethical perspective. Promising people you can heal them, taking the money of desperate people who should be paying for legitimate medical treatment... If that is what religion is about, thank god I am an athiest (that was a joke, for those of you too Christian to get it).
Check out Tony's new thriller Dead or Alive http://www.amazon.co.uk/Alive-Varrick-Bo......n+carson
http://www.PartyMagic.ie |
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mota Inner circle 1658 Posts |
Benny Hinn on an HBO special aired on September 15, 2007 said, "" I use Hypnosis Techniques to people feel better at my crusades."
That's what is wrong with all those dying people...they are praying incorrectly. You mention Benny is a buddy of yours...he doesn't agree with you. On that same special he freely admits that "He cannot heal the truly sick, such as people with cancer, Aids, heart disease". If you got a prayer method that works when done "correctly" there are millions of dying people who would love to hear about it, including your buddy Benny. |
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts |
I know that there are some dishonest people linked to religion and evidence of life after death. I've met a couple. I liked them at the time and like them even more now. Although by definition they are indeed dishonest they are however very nice people, who in their own minds are doing nothing too evil. I've heard their individual arguments for doing what they do, and it stands good with me.
There's worse out there. Much worse. Like Benny maybe?
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Benny Hill?
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts |
Exactly, Benny Hill and that wee bald fella. That simply wasn't right!!!
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
Frank, you said: "The possibilities that "pastors" are using hypnosis in a church or in a conference is breaking my heart. Just the thought of it happening makes me want to lay hands on them and show them that praying in the Holy Spirit instead of using hypnosis to be healed is infinitely more effective."
Why would a pastor using hypnosis intentialnally or unintentinally break your heart? Hypnosis is natural phenomena, everything that happens in hypnosis happens in life apart from hypnosis. Sure Benny Hinn and others use hypnosis. Watched Benny on TV the other day, he even had post-hypnotic suggestions. Why wouldn't a pstor use a god-given ability within all of us. In your belief system, it is not incongruent that hypnosis as a gift from God is the mode the Holy Spirit uses. I have no problem watching a master stage hypnotist doing a religious service, and appreciateing both the power of God and the modality of hypnosis to accomplish his work- either intentional or unintentional. Watch a Benny Hinn service, he does set-pieces, induction, deepeners, suggestive therapy, post hypnotics and awakening. Terry Stokes alwasy says, if the hypnosis thing quits working for him in Vegas, a faith healer he would be.... Use of trance and hypnosis is not unique to Benny Hinns branch of flamboyant pentecostalism. ALL religion uses trance, from the Catholics to the Hindus, to the Baptists, to the Native American shamens...
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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Doctor REvil Elite user 469 Posts |
Use of trance and hypnosis is not unique to Benny Hinns branch of flamboyant pentecostalism. ALL religion uses trance, from the Catholics to the Hindus, to the Baptists, to the Native American shamens...
Hmmmm, lets not give away too many secrets shall we.........
Karma means you buy now & pay later.....think I've over spent....!
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
DE: you're equating trance with hypnosis. That's like equating a Porche with a Yugo. They achieve some similar goals, but they're hardly the same.
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Nongard1 Special user 664 Posts |
DM, most of these religions achive trance WITH hypnosis. The Christian has a set of expectations, goes to church, they start with a welcome and announcement (pre-talk), moves to prayer (deepener), sermon (suggestive therapy), alter call (hypnotic phenomena), bennediction (post hypnotic suggestion)... The same process of hypnosis. The same phenomena, the same outcome. That neither makes it good, bad, human or divine, it just makes it the same.
Dr. Richard Nongard, Professional Hypnosis Training
Learn how to master the art of SpeedTrance, Clinical and Stage Hypnosis |
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts |
Just wanna come in to say I know a wee bit about organised religion. I've never know hypnosis to be orchestrated in any way, shape or form in any world religion. I'm pretty sure it actually doesn't happen, but I simply love to be re-educated every bso often. Sure Benny himself 'might' be using what 'he' knows he's using, but I think it's more than probable that his close helpers don't know whats going on, apart form a very very very clos few.
I don't think, in the 60's movie 'Elmer Gantry', the character Burt Lancaster encompasses, has any idea what actual hypnosis is. He simply understands 'the psychology of belief'. Benny obviously has studied the movie and maybe chucked in a wee bit of hypno. But I don't think it's an organisational training thing. That'd just be too creepy.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Praying is hypnosis.
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts |
Don't be daft, praying is talking to someone you think is there but isn't. Kinda' like marriage from the second year onwards.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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Anthony Jacquin Inner circle UK 2220 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 17:20, mindpunisher wrote: Please expand on that MP?
Anthony Jacquin
Reality is Plastic! The Art of Impromptu Hypnosis Updated for 2016 Now on Kindle and Audible! |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 14:01, Nongard1 wrote: I would respectfully suggest that you haven't included the induction, although some might say that sermons are often boring enough to be good inductions. Further, since all hypnotic phenomena can also appear outside of trance, I still don't see that it is NECESSARILY hypnosis. I could say, "Pass the ketchup, please," in order to get you to pass the stuff to me. I don't need to give a pre-talk, induction, or deepener to get you to follow the suggestion. Of course, I could do those steps just to get the ketchup, but it seems to me like a waste of time and effort. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
Praying is fixation internalising of the senses and auto suggestion.
God is your unconscious or your unconscious is god depending upon which viewpoint you want to take. Rituals are nothing more than inductions. |
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Fábio DeRose Inner circle San Paolo, Brasile 1477 Posts |
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On 2010-01-13 18:10, bobser wrote: Or talking o an imaginary friend. |
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mindpunisher Inner circle 6132 Posts |
True a woman is just an imaginary friend...give her an inch and youl see the true person..
I was generous I always gave them two inches and they moaned. |
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dmkraig Inner circle 1949 Posts |
"PRAY, v. To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."
Ambrose Bierce in The Devil's Dictionary |
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bobser Inner circle 4179 Posts |
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On 2010-01-14 13:34, mindpunisher wrote: Well we all know about your famous 2 inches (hence: 'Shrink') and yes they (both of them)did moan. In fact they complained bitterly.
Bob Burns is the creator of The Swan.
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