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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
I'm actually doing some thinking and planning about this business aspect of entertaining. I got Jim Snack's introductory emails (can't spring for the full course just yet) and even answered the ten questions. And I'm even gatherting info to write a business plan.
Which brings me to my current question. My show style is goofy slapstick comedy aimed at kids, but in a small-stage whole-family setting. I do not want to do birthday parties in living rooms and parks. (Although I figure I'm going to get a lot of calls for that, so I'd better make some allowances for those shows.) So where do I find entire familes gathering with their kids for magic entertainment? What venues exist? (I'm assuming I will need to get these venues to let me come in before I can set up somewhere and believe they will come to me.) Is this even a realistic business model? What adjustments am I likely to have to make? Ed |
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Jacoby New user Canada 27 Posts |
These venues, although not as popular as birthday parties, do exist. Look at local fairs or festivals. Even if the event is not specifically kid oriented, there is usually a Kid Play Area. Even at my towns Ribfest, every year, there is a KidZone, and I do magic there, usually close-up, but I do a few shows a day. You can also look at Ren faires or 'medieval times' fairs, in this situation you are looking at hundreds (or even thousands, depending on where you live) of kids going there for field trips, and on the public days, where there are no field trips, you would be looking at hundreds of kids every day. Of course, for this situation, you would need to put together a character for the times at hand. You wouldn't have to change your performance style, but get a costume, and try and use vocab from that time.
You could also look at day camps, in the summer. There is usually a group, run by the city who puts these day camps on, one day it might be swimming, or craft making, etc. I know, just a few weeks ago, I was booked for one of these day camps to do a 'magic workshop'. I will do a magic show for the kids, and then teach them all a trick, and let them perform it for the group later on that day/the next day (not 100% sure of the exact details) These are the ones that come from the top of my head, if I can think of more, I will post them. |
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Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
My question is What's wrong with birthdays?
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Quote:
My question is What's wrong with birthdays? Absolutely nothing, Neale. But a magic show for the uncontolled chaos of a horde of sugar-stoked kids barely "supervised" by either a teenager and his/her favorite squeeze or a few alcohol-lubricated disinterested adults in a home environment that does not facilitate my show and makes me wish I were somewhere else does not give me the opportunity to do my best. I've told them about my space requirements, I've asked about the sequence of events, but it nevere works. I've been crammed into a corner and perched on the pool deck; I've been setting up and suddenly get mobbed by all the kids, and I've waited for several minutes only to have then herded straight from the pool into the living room. Perhaps when I get a few hundred shows under my belt, I'll be better able to handle that kind of venue - right now, I'd rather avoid it. I can't give the customer what I know I can deliver in those kind of circumstances. The customer won't be happy and neither will I. I'd rather try to find a way to win/win the situation. Ed |
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Neale Bacon Inner circle Burnaby BC Canada 1775 Posts |
It is up to the performer to establish control.
I have never been mobbed by kids, and I don't care how much sugar they have ingested, we all still have fun together and that's what I am there for. You do have to be flexible to do birthdays and yes you do get set up in some weird places. The way to learn control is to do them - not avoid them.
Neale Bacon and his Crazy Critters
Burnaby BC Canada's Favourite Family Ventriloquist www.baconandfriends.com |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Quote:
On 2009-12-19 15:49, Neale Bacon wrote: Agreed. But I'm not neccessarily interested in learning to do birthday parties in people's homes and dominate that market. I simply recognize that I'm going to get calls from those people, and that mey be the bulk of my business until I can get set up to do what I really want to do, which will allow me to deliver my best product to the customer. Ed |
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Joe S. Loyal user Los Angeles, CA 272 Posts |
Hey Ed,
I have no idea about your business, your show, or the market you work in... but I have one piece of general advice that me and my friends agree holds true regardless of the type of show you do or the market you perform in. Charge more money. It's a fact that when people pay more for something, they appreciate it more. Whether its a gold watch, higher-quality home flooring, or a newer, more luxurious car... when people stretch their budget, they're proud of their purchase and can't wait to show it off. And their friends will treat their new purchase with respect as well. Wouldn't want to disrespect your friend, would you? When you're "expensive" for your market (whatever that may be), your clients will appreciate you more. They'll treat you with more respect, and they'll DEMAND that they're guests do as well. "Sandra... keep those darn kids quiet! I spent $*** on this magician and I'm going to get my money's worth, darn it!!!" Perhaps you're already doing this... I don't know. But I find the psychology of this to be fascinating. I see it play out 90% of the time. It sounds to me like Jim Snacks course is right up your alley. He's got some great markets that would be a good fit for you. INVEST IN IT!!! |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Well, Joe, at the moment I don't have a business. In fact, that's kind of what I'm trying to figure out: do I have a viable business model and direction? I have one show as described in my first post (although I do anticipate expanding that).
The market? Here's the demographics of Yuma from Wikipedia: According to the 2006 American Community Survey estimate, the median income for a household in the city was $39,885, and the median income for a family was $41,588. Males had a median income of $35,440 versus $27,035 for females. The per capita income for the city was $18,393. About 14.1% of families and 16.9% of the population were below the poverty line, including 23.4% of those under age 18 and 13.9% of those age 65 or over. The high poverty rate may be due to unemployment, as Yuma tops CareerBuilder.com's list of 20 U.S. cities with the highest unemployment rates.[11] High unemployment remains an issue in Yuma. Citing April 2009 data, the Bureau of Labor Statistics ranked Yuma as #2 among the 13 U.S. cities that post unemployment rates above 15 percent. Yuma came in at 20.3 percent, under the 26.9 percent in El Centro, California.[12] Yuma's agricultural workforce, which adjusts to the picking season, is cited as the reason for the high unemployment by the Arizona Department of Commerce.[13] The population swells dramatically during the winter - we can have over 200,000 people. We also have a few high end stores and restaraunts, but most people wanting "top quality" head to San Diego or Phoenix. I haven't been performing much - my show next month is my first in quite a while, aside from two birthdays for friends. So I personally have difficulty pricing myself as a "gold watch" value until I have a bit more experience and confidence that I can deliver to quality the customer has paid for on a consistent basis. It's almost sounding like I should just expect to do the birthdays, if that's the work that comes my way, and gather contacts to work my way up to where I'd rather be. Ed |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Three points, Ed...
I agree with Joe if and only if the performer has a seasoned and proven show worthy of the big bucks and suitable for the market you're trying to reach. Charging top dollar for a disorganized, unpopular show hurts us all. I don't mind novices learning as they earn as long as their fee reflects their show and doesn't insult the art in my market. Let's clarify that. Second, as in comedy, we all have to pay our dues. Every comedian must work the hell gigs - the bowling alleys, biker bars, rat-hole clubs and so on until they have a polished set worthy of hitting the better circuits. The same is true for the kidshow artist. Festival and event organizers often work on the reputation of the performer and the word-of-mouth referrals of involved parents. It takes time and a few hell junkets to build this reputation. Third, (and more in line with your initial question) I actively market to my medium-to-big-ticket appearances like schools & libraries, festival & fair boards, large flea markets, youth & community centers, YMCA's, churches, boy & girl clubs, Scouts, malls & shopping complexes, car & mobile/vacation home dealers, real estate agencies, city park & rec departments, local art councils and a few I prefer not to name due to local competition. I do reasonably well - but, I still accept most birthday parties that come my way because: 1) They fill dead time during which I'm not otherwise engaged, 2) They provide a safe haven to test and perfect new material, 3) They boost my brand visibility and word-of-mouth referrals and 4) They keep a steady flow of cash coming in between large gigs. I was talking to a young club magician just the other day who refused to "stoop" to birthday parties and "kid shows." We had a nice conversation as I sorted through the bits of his cabaret act that he was selling to pay his rent for the month. Good luck with your venture, Ed. Hope the list in point #3 gives you a few good starting points! And in response to your thread title - Always treat every customer as a preferred customer! (However, some may be more preferred than others. ) Skip
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Joe S. Loyal user Los Angeles, CA 272 Posts |
Skip's post is perfect! Read it twice!
I wish you BEST OF LUCK on your new venture! And there's nothing wrong with kid shows... don't let anyone tell you otherwise. |
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Mary Mowder Inner circle Sacramento / Elk Grove, CA 3659 Posts |
Dear Ed-Millis,
A while back I quit doing kids shows of all types for a while. I thought I would get more respect as a Close-Up Performer. Not being a particularly good or driven business person I just didn't work as much and I missed the kids. Honestly. As a Kid performer lots of the work is Birthday Parties. They are good training and they are great fun for the most part. Kids are not that uncontrollable. You may get one or two problem kids, no big deal . If you can't like the kids up close you might not like kids shows in general. You look like a fun and funny guy. I think you might be a little afraid of the kids but after a very few shows you'll love 'em. -Mary Mowder |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Thanks all for the responses. Skip - there's a lot in that post! Especially about brand visibility and referrals - I'm reading a lot about building a business from the branding and marketing end ("Selling the Invisible", "The Invisible Touch", "Your Marketing Sucks", and so forth), and that comes up a lot.
I have nothing against kids or kid shows. (I love kids - season well, crock pot for 6 hours, serve with rice pilaf - JOKING!!) What bugs the heck outta me is some of the situations I've been crammed into whilst trying to give this birthday child a *good* memory, working around a parent who couldn't be bothered to set things up to provide a decent setting and drunken uncles who insist on ruining the event. If it wasn't for that, I would jump in with both feet and take it all! But there's a lot of it I really don't want to touch without copiuous amounts of sanitizer lotion! Ed |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
I hear ya, Ed. From your community's demographics, the "hell party" you described is probably fairly common. The median family income in my market area is around $80,000; the per capita income is around $45,000 - $50,000. So, we're dealing with different markets entirely. Most of my clients earn at least 6 figures and my word-of-mouth campaign markets exclusively in those neighborhoods. I don't have the issues you face. I get where you're coming from.
Look at the list I posted above. Browse through your local parent magazine and yellow pages. See what opportunities crop up. Look into joining your state's fair & festival association. Hit the internet and see what festivals occur around you each year then look for their webpages. They'll usually have vendor information, committee names and contacts and so on. Use your list to market to these events. Join your local Chamber of Commerce and art council. Attend their functions to network. Talk to local youth clubs, churches, PTAs and park & rec depts...Ask them what they really need, then provide it. Oh...and I still go through gallons of sanitizer! Good luck!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
Ed,
You are far from being the Lone Ranger here. What I like is your awareness of the problem. People seldom find solutions to problems they don't know they have. Yuma has never been my hometown. However, the uncle that raised me owned Whispering Sands Ranch in Phoenix and in the 50s, it was not a roaring city. I'm surprised we did not have magicians on horseback. Even today I still live on a ranch nearly fifty miles from a major city. My market is not where I live. It is not rare for me to travel 1000-2000 miles a week. I envy you guys who eat all three meals at home. Count your blessings! Birthdays are certainly a market. In a seasonal environment like you have, it is not a very stable one at a level that will support you. But don't throw the baby out with the bath water. For many magicians these are what a marketing pro would consider taking anytime they cover more than the variable costs of doing them. They contribute something toward paying the (Fixed costs) overhead. My market is all out of town. At home, when I do a magic show it is either a public service (Sunday school project etc.) or a paid sponsored show. I don't book library shows through the library system like many magicians do. Their budgets are no constraint for me. Instead my library shows are paid for by sponsors who pay my rates. In return they get media publicity and recognition money can't buy. It also leaves money for the library to use another way. The sponsors can get interviews on the local radio and TV talk shows, coverage in the newspapers, and recognition in the local news of the "special event" when it happens. Later there is often recognition at awards banquets at year end. I bring this up because in a seasonal environment like you have in Yuma, there are bound to be sponsors willing to sponsor for publicity during the appropriate season. (Rules of thumb: Corporate sponsors are better organized, more stable and pay better than non business entities; corporate sponsors have better qualified human resources to handle advertising and publicity; and corporate sponsors are usually equipped for Plan B when plans change. Governmental and civic entities tend to be more loyal to their own people than to the project or the entertainer.) Becoming a spokesperson usually pays better than birthday magic too! You may have opportunities in the sponsor's advertising, sales meetings, etc. Only corporate sponsorship offers that. Now you know why other magicians tease me about birthday shows I do. The first question is "Grandfather is chairman of the board of what corporation?" Yep! If Grandpa is COB of a sponsoring corporation, I certainly want to be in his family photos! I'll send you a PM with specific suggestions for Yuma. You may be sitting on a gold mine! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
First things first Ed
How many shows have you performed professionally? How many in the past year? If I recall correctly in another forum here you are just doing your first show? You say here it's your first in a while? You may need more time performing before you try to start a business, however a business plan is a great idea. You need a map to know where you are going. Try performing more free shows like the library show you are doing, get the time in on the boards so to speak and experience under your belt. There is a whole forum here dedicated to doing volunteer shows. Get 20 or so shows experience, makes some videos of the shows, both for promotion and to help you improve. Also you are then a viable commidity Next, you want to be a family entertainer. Drop the words "kid show", use family entertainer. Thank about where do families gather for entertainment? Are there theme parks in season where you live? When the 200,000 snowbirds come in what are they coming for? Is there spring training baseball (might be a good angle there)? How far away from Yuma are you willing to travel? How about library and school shows? Good luck to you Quote:
On 2009-12-19 12:34, Neale Bacon wrote: Birthdays are fine Kid shows tend to attract the worst performers, the least experienced and in it for what they think is quick, easy money. Those who wear the worst "costumes" and have the most horrid looking props There are some very good family entertainers (and those few are real artists) but the majority of weekend birthday performers are hurting the art, keeping magic relegated to the bottom rung of the entertainment ladder and away from the prestigious position it held when Alexander Herrmann took the stage p.s. also the birthday market tend to attract the bottom feeders who will do a show for 60 minutes for $175 or less Ed you can make it not doing birthday parties if that is what you choose. I do very, very few birthday parties and only after the children and parents meet my criteria
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
[quote]On 2009-12-23 02:04, Vick wrote:
Quote:
Kid shows tend to attract the worst performers, the least experienced and in it for what they think is quick, easy money. Those who wear the worst "costumes" and have the most horrid looking props Ya know, Vick...I have to disagree with you there and offer the membership rolls of KIDabra International in support. I will agree that there are some horrid kidshow performers if you'll agree that there are just as many atrocious parlour, stage and club performers who believe the latest prop, card flair or special effect equals instant entertainment. It is your way of thinking that has, for decades, held the image of kidshow artists to that aforementioned bottom rung. Fortunately, thanks to Mark & Tami Daniel's insight and to people like Sammy Smith, David Kaye, Ken Scott, Barry Mitchell, Dave Andrews, Jimmy Carlo, Julian Franklin and countless others, that image is shifting and kidshow artists are finally being recognized for the pros they are. Stating that any one branch of our art attracts the worst of the worst without considering the real facts is simply insulting. The poor performers fade away and the top entertainers continue to rise and prosper - regardless of the branch of magic each chooses to specialize in. With Vegas, Branson, Pigeon Forge, Orlando, Disney and network television magic shows (to name a few) topping the charts I wouldn't rank magic anywhere near the bottom rung. I'd say it's prospering as a legitimate form of entertainment. I would also say that it is far more popular and accessible today than it ever was in Compeer Herrmann's day. Much of that popularity is due to the hometown kidshow artist who delivers magic into the hands of kids through their schools, libraries, restaurants and living room parties. I do, however, agree with you on using the market key phrase "Family Entertainer" and embracing a program that entertains all ages while seeming to focus on the wee ones. Well said. My apologies for jumping the thread, Ed. Where were we?
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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Vick Inner circle It's taken me 10+ years to make 1120 Posts |
Skip Way - we strongly disagree. For every decent family entertainer I can show you 2 who should not be performing (at least in the markets I work).
I don't find the same ratio in any other genre of the art and truthfully far too many kid shows are insulting. The bottom rung is deserved by many and it is where we are. I know how hard it is to be a great family entertainer, but they are few and far. The few have my utmost respect and admiration (I've seen someone do Guy Hollingworth "Once upon a time" and blow me away but A lot of so called magicians will "stoop" to birthday parties when shows are slow as many did last year when bookings were down. I saw entire websites and ads changed because times were tough and some were going after the only jobs they thought could get I fight and we must end the image of the bumbling, stumbling clown/weird uncle/weekend warrior who does a couple tricks in a polyester vest and is only considered entertainment for children. It's the difference between playing a kazoo and conducting an orchestra To elevate the art (or at the very least understand it and try). To reach the audience and engage them, for them to think and feel. Laugh and cry. To entertain them in the here and now and then give them something to think about in the future. A good perform would do this regardless of genre Does the average kid show guy even consider this? Thanks Kid Show guys (can't even call yourself family entertainers) The shows and places you name don't top any charts, they might be a little something in Pigeon Forge but it's nothing in drawing power say to U2, Madonna or Springsteen. We are entertainers, that is our competition as is the New England Patriots or the upcomming Sherlock Holmes movie Besides Copperfield how many can mount a real nationwide tour? Perhaps some in Europe? Skip Way retort if you like and then we'll give it a break to another time and let it go back to helping Ed? You can never change what I've experienced and the damage the average kid show performer does to the art
Unique, Thought Provoking & Amazing Magical Entertainment Experiences
Illusions By Vick Blog of a real world working magician Magic would be great, if not for magicians |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Thanks, Vick, but no thanks. I've no time to waste on closed minds. We'll simply agree to disagree, continue along our own individual paths and leave it there. Best of luck to you.
Back to you, Ed!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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TomBoleware Inner circle Hattiesburg, Ms 3163 Posts |
I think you right Skip.
Without little league baseball there would be no major league games. Those in magic owe it all to the beginners, hobbyist, fans, and performers of all skill levels, and NOT just the experts at the card table. Tom
The Daycare Magician Book
https://www.vanishingincmagic.com/amazekids/the-daycare-magician/ My Blog - https://boleware.blogspot.com/ |
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Skip Way Inner circle 3771 Posts |
Amen, Tom!
How you leave others feeling after an Experience with you becomes your Trademark.
Magic Youth Raleigh - RaleighMagicClub.org |
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