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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Shuffled not Stirred » » Does this stack exist? (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

Devilix
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Since I don't perform a lot, learning a stack is sometimes difficult for me. I learn it but I don't perform it often, so I become hesitant with it.

Does any stack exist where the position is determined by a math calculation. I mean a kind of Osterlind BCS but with a way to determine is position in the stack. (could be any kind of stack not to obvious)

thanks
MemDeck329
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This will answer your question:

http://www.deceptionary.com/aboutstacks.html

Using calculations instead of a truly memorized deck can be scary.... Those calculations will fail you when you need them most. It's easy to practice your memorized deck while you are doing other things, like driving, taking a shower, etc. You can practice while you are watching TV.
Turk
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What do you mean by "Does any stack exist where the position is determined by a math calculation."?

I believe that Doug Dyment's QuickStack allows you to know a card's stack number by a mental calculation and/or know the identitity of a card by its stack number.

I also believe that Richard Osterlind's latest instructions for the BCS (Breakthrough Card System) might now allow for this also. (I believe that with the BCS, you can now know the identity of both the next card and the preceding card. Whether or not you can know a card's identity merely by being given a stack number (i.e., #43, etc.), I don't know.)

Shortly after learning the original BCS and the Quickstack, I switched over to the Aronson Stack and (without mental calculations or forumlae or memory pegs) now know each card and its stack position. As a result, I haven't looked back nor attempted to learn any math calculation based system or any other memorized deck setup.


As a result, its been a long time since I played around with either the Quickstack or the BCS and I may be in error in all or some of the foregoing. Hopefully, other Café members more familar with these two systems will chime in and provide you with more definitive information and/or corrected any incorrect information I might have provided in these regards.

If all else fails, you can contact both Richard Osterlind and Doug Dyment regarding their particular system. Both are very nice and helpful guys. Both are members of the Café although their appearances here might be somewhat sporatic.

Hope this helps,

Mike

P.S. You might also contact Martin Joyal. He is the creator of the "Six-Hour Memorized Deck" and he can advise you if his system suits your purposes. Martin also is a Café member.

If you cannot find the desired contact information for Richard, Doug or Martin, a Google search should provide you with that information.
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Eschew obfuscation.
Devilix
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Thanks a lot guys for all the information. This is really appreciated.

Have a nice day
Sixten
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Devilix:

(If you are interested in using the "Si Stebbin's Stack"?)
See Mr. John Scarne's book: "Scarne Card Tricks"
"Si Stebbin's Master Memory Test"/Pgs. 251-thru-255.
(The last 2 pages will tell you how to accomplish locating any card, numerically,
using this stack)

Sixten
Lawrence O
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Eddie Joseph also published a simple way to mathematically calculate the position of a card in a Si Stebbins stack
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
MemDeck329
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This is also covered in "Si Stebbins Unplugged".

If a stack is memorized, ANY STACK... even Si Stebbins, the results are obtained instantly with very little chance of error.

Lawrence, it's good to see you in this neck of the woods. I have gained much from reading your posts.
Sixten
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I would love to find out, one day, that some math genius came up with a formula, that
can be applied into Mr. Osterlind's: (wonderful) "B.C.S.".
(But it may not be possible, due to the "S.O.B.A." application?)
Steven Keyl
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I actually started with a modified version of Doug Dyment's Quick Stack which I later memorized. The nice thing about it is you can use the mathematical principles of the stack to do some memdeck work before you decide to commit to memorizing a stack.
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nlokers
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Quote:
On 2009-12-31 12:36, Sixten wrote:
I would love to find out, one day, that some math genius came up with a formula, that
can be applied into Mr. Osterlind's: (wonderful) "B.C.S.".
(But it may not be possible, due to the "S.O.B.A." application?)


I would guess that a formula for that would be way too complex. What I would suggest is to try and memorize every 5th card, so in the end you only had to memorize 10 or so cards, and then if you want to know card #42 you just know what #40 is, and then figure out #41 and #42 from there.
gdw
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I too have sought out this mythical mathematical mish mash of playing cards.

Technically it is possible, but it usually results in either a stack that looks ordered, or a formula/calculations that are complicated, especially to do on the fly.

I sought finding said stack through faros, given the precision and mathematical features that come from said shuffle, and this was the simplest calculation stack I could get to. I don't actually remember the calculation, but it involved shifting the resulting position based on how many times the answer was divisible by 52, or 51, I forget which. It wasn't just a simple plug in this value for the value of the card, and this value for the suite.

Also, even working out that, it required a bit of memorization. You had to have each suit be a value of 0, 13, 26, or 49, and then do the calculation, and then do the adjustment.

Any who, I ended up taking advantage of the stack it gave me, but as a cyclical progressive stack, like Si Stebbins, in that each card was determined by adding a value to the preceding card, and then following a rule on the suits.
This isn't the stack I settled on, but it is used within my stack, in a similar way that a staty stack is used in Mnemonica.
It's amazing, people will criticize you for "biting the hand that feeds you," while they're busy praising the hand that beats them.

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