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DaleTrueman
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What about sleight of hand? Does that count as a trick or not? I think yes. Smile
tnmagicgator
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I don't mind people using the word "trick" to describe what I do or to make a request of me. I prefer to not use it myself; I'll offer to show them something "amazing" or "fascinating" or a magical effect. I guess it boils down to personal preference and semantics.
funsway
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In my books I define "trick" as what comes in the box or is found on the page of a magci book. An "effect" is what a magician does in a performance, with concern for setting, patter, character, etc. So, for me you can't "do a trick." -- but can play a trick on someone, which has nothing to do with magic.

the 'trick', the performer and the spectator should combine to produce something greater than the sum of the parts; or so it seems to this old fart.
"the more one pretends at magic, the more awe and wonder will be found in real life." Arnold Furst



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RobertlewisIR
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I don't really care for the word "trick," either, because for me its reminiscent of those cheap plastic "tricks" we all got in magic sets as kids. Nothing against them, as so many of us started there, but do I really want to compare what I do now to what I did then? I don't think so.

At the same time, the audience thinks in terms of "tricks," so it doesn't really bother me if someone says "go on, give us another trick." And to be perfectly honest, that's exactly what I'm doing, too, isn't it? I'm using deception to trick them, or a trick to fool them (or however you want to phrase it).

Generally speaking, I don't offer to do tricks, though. I'll offer magic, perhaps. Or maybe illusion. Or depending on the situation, I might script it in a more unique way.

Really, though, the bottom line is, no matter what you call it, the audience is going to call it a trick, so I say let's forget about the labels, try not to get hung up on what people call our magic, and just make the magic memorable, because that's what really counts.
~Bob



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coolini
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[quote]
Really, though, the bottom line is, no matter what you call it, the audience is going to call it a trick, so I say let's forget about the labels, try not to get hung up on what people call our magic, and just make the magic memorable, because that's what really counts.


well said...
professorwhut
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Is it OK to say Cheap Trick

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DmpM8DMZ9E

This shows my age.
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professorwhut
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And for goodness sake, practice your "trick" until you can't do it wrong before you perform it.
Otherwise you will only be "tricking" yourself, and no "magic" will be involved.
After much soul searching about a signature, I decided not to have one.

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Vick
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Quote:
On 2009-12-29 11:54, BrianMillerMagic wrote:
I could care less about the word trick. No matter what you call it, the audience knows it's a trick. In fact I think it's more impressive to tell them it's a trick and then astound them anyway. Embrace what you do; you're already lying just by doing magic, don't make it worse by pretending that your lies aren't lies.



Sorry you feel that way. I don't lie, I weave stories creating entertainment

Creating an experience with the audience. If I weave a story about my date showing up 45 minutes early and what was done to do to get ready quickly where is the lie?

Perhaps the word "effect", or "let me share something with you" or "have seen this?" or launching into the story

Giving the effect no name, leaving it ambiguous allows the subject or audience room to interpret, can make it more personal

How do you touch people emotionally or reach them intellectually if you promote your art as a lie?


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Vick
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Quote:
On 2009-12-30 13:40, funsway wrote:

the 'trick', the performer and the spectator should combine to produce something greater than the sum of the parts; or so it seems to this old fart.

:ohyes: Smile
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mhend
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I understand and agree with many who say the word "trick" can cheapen the trade. But sometimes you have an audience that wants to be tricked...it's part of the fun. remember the old Jack Benny/Mel Blanc routine where Benny would ask the same old questions and Blanc would give the same answers? they performed it many times; sometimes the setting and costumes were different but the lines were always the same. the audience knew what the next line would be and loved it because of that...the delivery is what sold it. what a lost art!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9s8U0O0XPE
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The Burnaby Kid
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Quote:
On 2010-01-02 11:30, mhend wrote:
I understand and agree with many who say the word "trick" can cheapen the trade. But sometimes you have an audience that wants to be tricked...it's part of the fun.


Indeed. This whole thing, recognizing that there are different audiences out there that can be served by magic in different ways, is one of the reasons why I tried to develop the Archetypes theory. It's akin to genres in film -- saying that magic should be a certain way is like saying that all movies should be science fiction.

Some audiences love to see magic that is aesthetically beautiful. Others couldn't care less.

Some audiences want to have their imagination stirred by thoughts of what magic could be like if it were real. Others find such ventures an insult to their intelligence.

Some audiences enjoy seeing big spectacles. Others are more amazed when they get to see magic intimate and close-up.

etc. etc.
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Mr. Mystoffelees
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In my past, or maybe in a dream, I met a woman in a pub who offered to do a trick for me... it was magic...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
RobertlewisIR
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No, Mandarin, it wasn't the past or a dream...it was Las Vegas.
~Bob



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Last night, I dreamed I ate the world's largest marshmallow. When I woke up, the pillow was gone.
base851
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I think Andrew completely hit the nail on the head. Whether "trick" is verboten or acceptable depends on your approach. What I tell people is... when you watch a movie like Star Wars, or the Matrix, or whatever... we all know that they aren't really swinging laser swords, using The Force or being linked into a machine. But we willingly suspend our disbelief in order to allow ourselves to be entertained by the fantasy and visual experience. My job as the magician is to try to provide that visual experience. The audience's job (in my mind) is to suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride.
tjaymagic
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This reminds me of what we are taught at degree level regarding TV, Film & Theatre, and it very much applies to magic, in all its forms.

The academic description of this is mis-en-scene, which basicly means 'all aspects of the scene'.

In TV, Film & Theatre terms this is the acting, lighting, direction, camera angles, framing of the picture, costume, props, script etc. All these affect the meaning of what is on screen.

This is no different in magic. We all decide on what meaning we want to give to our magic, so for a magician, his elements of mis-en-scene, is the prop/trick, his patter, framing - in regards to his audience (there are some effects that are spoiled if the audience can see what's going on behind the magician), costume, lighting, music, this also can cover physology and showmanship.

The trick/sleight of hand move/prop is part of the mis-en-scene.

Here is a very good example regarding this, if you perform a card effect where you use a prop to pick the card, and you only have two props to choose from a fob watch on a chain or a wand, which do you want to use, a wand, this can give the meaning of 'magic' whereas if you choose 'fob watch' this 'can' easily go into the relms of physcic. I could easily see a mentalist choose the fob watch thoug, though some mentalists may disagree with me!

Trick is only part of what we do as a whole.
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Anatole
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This discussion about "trick" reminds me somewhat of the perennial debate about whether or not magic is an art. In the final analysis, I think it's all in the mind of the beholder. The word "trick" need not have a negative connotation. It has been used positively in other fields, such as Will Rogers's acts where he did trick roping. Explorers such as Sir Richard Burton wandered the world looking for someone who could perform the Indian Rope Trick in the open air, and I doubt seriously that he ever asked anyone, "Have you ever seen the Indian Rope Effect?"

I always felt that substituting the word "effect" for "trick" was somewhat contrived. I'm sure that I'm not the only magician who prefaces an effect by saying, "For my next miracle I will need the assistance of a volunteer from the audience." To paraphrase the Bard: "What's in a name? That which we call a trick by any other name would be amazing." And I do think magicians spend too much time asking themselves "Is the word trick a good choice when performing before an audience?" or "Is magic an art?" I don't think the audience cares one way or another. What matters is--are they fooled and entertained? (The real trick is not fooling the audience anyway. As I once wrote in a magazine article, the name of the game is not so much fooling anyone. It's tricking them into suspending their disbelief so they recapture the sense of wonder they knew when they really believed in--MAGIC!

----- Amado "Sonny" Narvaez
----- Sonny Narvaez
charliemartin
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Does it really matter..my business card says magician. What do you do? Tricks.

Charlie
DomKabala
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Quote:
On 2009-12-28 21:33, teedpop wrote:
I know I'm a newbie but here is some advice:
NEVER say the word trick, and here is why-
1. It sounds cheap.
2. We don't do "Tricks".

I mean seriously I hate being tricked. don't you?

-teed

1. Cheap...
2. Trick...
I saw them in concert with Ted Nugent a few times in the day... Smile
Seriously I use the term "trick" without guilt all the time. I have heard many of the greats refer to what they perform as "tricks" & Frank Garcia, Johnny Thompson, Charlie Miller, Dai Vernon, John Mendoza, and many more of the greats used the term without remorse or guilt.

Tricks, effects, endeavors, experiments, etc. is just a word and a means to an end, but not the end in itself. The end is great entertainment isn't it?

Cardamagically,
DOM Smile Smile
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tjaymagic
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...Whereas on a forum, we can debate the meanings of these words...there is no right and wrong answer, only a well constructed point of view...well that's what I was told by a university lecturer anyhow! Smile
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jusakarman
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Quote:
On 2009-12-28 21:33, teedpop wrote:
I know I'm a newbie but here is some advice:
NEVER say the word trick, and here is why-
1. It sounds cheap.
2. We don't do "Tricks".

I mean seriously I hate being tricked. don't you?

-teed


for me prefer said "let me show you something amazing" than "let me show you some trick's"
ii don't want to become trickster..i want to become miracle worker, magician....
"for those magicians who place magic above comfort and reward" from book of wonder by Tommy Wonder (November 29, 1953 - June 26, 2006) ........
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