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Gatehouse
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Cardiff, UK
117 Posts

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Hey guys,

I've recently come back to magic and decided to put as much time I can into bringing my weaknesses up to par. I always preferred cards as I was never nimble enough for coins, so for the last few weeks I've been reading, watching DVD's and practicing the basic coin techniques.

It's all going pretty well and I think the break actually did me some good - I'm nailing the basics in no time compared to before. Anyway, I'm having a little trouble with 2 conceals - The Edge Palm and (rather foolishly) The Classic Palm.

At the moment, my Edge Palm looks extraordinarily awkward and as though I'm trying to cup my own crotch (which is an improvement on looking like I'm trying to cup someone else's crotch lol)

My Classic Palm is actually going quite well, but I'm just not 100% happy with it. The fingers look natural and when I practice in a mirror it looks fine, but the thumb is bothering me - It's fine getting the coin into position and thankfully doesn't swing out, but I don't know, something bothers me about the thumb when the coin is in position - The thumb tip sits just behind the base of the index finger and I don't know if it really does look odd or if it's just me being a bit of a perfectionist and panicing lol.

Obviously I need to work on these and practice, practice, practice is the obvious answer, but I wondered if you have any tips? I've been using Bobo, the corresponding DVD's as well as the Roth DVD's to learn, practice and gauge success so far lol.

Thanks in advance
Flyswatter
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I can offer no advice on the edge palm, I suck at it myself lol, I don't use this palm so I don't care if I look like cupping my own balls yet.

And for the Classic Palm, I just adopted a way to train both of my hands tipped by someone about David Roth's advice. You Classic Palm a coin in both hands to do everything,I'm doing it right now with the Classic palm as I'm typing. You can also practice flipping a coin with the hand CP'ed, pick up stuff while CP'ed, etc. If the thumb looks strange to you while touching index, try not touching it, leave a little space in between the fingers. (I have no problem with them touching, maybe you're just another weird perfectionist Smile)

Michael Ammar's complete introduction to coin magic is a useful tool as well.

Have fun!
mgcpwrs
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San Jose, CA
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Your post was funny - thanks.
I did the same thing and CP'd two coins all the time for a while and it was great.
It makes me think that even though I am working or typing or whatever....
I have a little secret. ANd if you can to 'all those things' it will likely look natural.
The final check is to use a video camera and do the same things and moves and
positions with and without the coin. Who knows it might be perfect but since you
'know' you have a coin, the mind is playing tricks.
mgcpwrs
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San Jose, CA
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Oh, I forgot - I can't help with the EP, it seems to take more time to develop that muscle memory.
(which I have not done)
Gatehouse
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Cardiff, UK
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The weird thing about my Classic, is that for some odd reason, it feels easier and more natural in my left hand than my right, even though I'm right handed.
I wonder if I'm perhaps being too conscious of my own thumb. That really is something I never thought I'd write lol.

That's a nice tip right there though and I've been doing that for the last week or so, just keeping a coin palmed whenever I can - My muscles obviously aren't trained enough yet but it's getting more comfortable every day.

On reflection, it may even just be a confidence thing since I've always thought of myself as being useless with coins lol.

Thanks for the tips Smile
Flyswatter
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Actually, it happened to me too, my left hand felt more comfortable CPing a coin, even though I'm right handed. It's weird.
D Walker
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Ryan,
Is there a specific reason you are working on the these sleights? I find that it best to start with the routine you want to work on and work on the moves in the context of that routine. For example, if you are working on Winged Silver, and need to work on CP as part of the routine, you can add the handling within the routine. In this case, your hand will be moving during the dirty moments. Remember it is unlikely that you will be just sitting their in a static moment with a coin hidden in CP. As far as an Edge Palm is concerned..... I have not found a personal need for this palm that has justified the time it would take to make it work... but there is always tomorrow.

My advice... start with a few routines that you want to perform.. then look at the sleights needed for them. If you can't work through the needed mechanics... look for alternative methods. You do not have to master every move in Bobo to make great Coin magic. Good Luck.
Gatehouse
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Thanks for the great response guys Smile

I actually haven't been thinking of these sleights in terms of a routine yet, but perhaps this is a good time to start lol. I've been doing a lot of reading around coin magic and a friend suggested some basics to begin with, the EP being one of these... From the comments, I think I'll put this on the backburner for a while until a little more experienced/dexterous lol.

Well, we have a snow day today, so I think I'll look through some routines and spend some time on these.

Thanks again
D Walker
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I think you will find it much easier to practice after you settle in on your routines. I was told by someone better than myself that you only need to have 3 or 4 good coin routines.... so don't kill yourself by taking on too much at once.
Gatehouse
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Cardiff, UK
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Sounds like great advice.. Since yesterday I've started going through my books and DVD's just looking for some routines to get going with.

I quite like Winged Silver actually and I spent some time last night on Roth's Production, Vanish and Reproduction which seems to have helped tighten up my CP already - I guess putting a sleight in context really does help lol.
Lawrence O
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Greenwich (CT)
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Starting with good solid roots like the ones supplied by David Roth as you did is the way to go if you want to grow a nice tree.

On the classic palm, Reed McLintock made a DVD entirely devoted to it

May I suggest that before you go knucklebusting, you watch whatever you want to learn several time without attempting to put it into practice. Naturally you will feel that you "understood", but recent neurological studies have discovered that we form "mirror neuronal chains" when watching and that by not doing some initial mistakes on secondary aspects, we learn faster by watching a specific move like three times a day for a week before putting our hands into it. Altogether the learning process is faster this way.

A second advice: whether at cards or coins, really look at the initial grip of the performer that you are learning the move from.

A third advice: learn more about misdirection than about sleights. You can find here on the café some invaluable advice on misdirection. Use the resource

A last advice, keep having fun doing it.
Magic is the art of proving impossible things in parallel dimensions that can't be reached
Gatehouse
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Thanks everyone for some great advice, it really is very much appreciated Smile

Rather silly when I think about it, but I actually hadn't thought of watching the routines like that - Thank you Lawrence Smile Actually, I get a lot of free time at work (usually a few hours a day which I fill with trips to the coffee shop lol) so I think I'll make sure I keep some DVD's with my laptop so that I can spend the time more productively.

I'll be sure to pay attention to those grips and definitely need to read more about misdirection - I started reading a bit of The Books of Wonder Vol 1 earlier and that first chapter has already helped me to understand it a little better, but this is all definitely a big ongoing process for me, but thankfully one that I love Smile
Gatehouse
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Decided to get a copy of the Reed McClintock DVD and am eagerly awaiting its arrival lol.
I've spent way too much on magic lately, but I figure it's better to get the fundamentals right Smile
MillsJW
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Timely post. I just ordered a copper/silver and am working with the T.U.C. Great advice on the CP typing.

PS - you can also "rip" the DVDs to your iTouch / iPhone for instant play anywhere.
Jaz
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NJ, U.S.
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"rather foolishly"???
For many people a good CP and EP aren't easy to master at all.
Many will find alternatives.
Few will ever CP with fingers wide apart and flat.
I'm not saying for you to give up just that You don't need a perfect CP or EP in order to do good magic.
Luck to ya,
Gatehouse
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You know, I hadn't even thought about putting the videos on my iphone, thank you Smile

While I realise I don't need a perfect CP or EP, I'm certainly going to spend as much time as I can trying lol. I will try not to get too bogged down and I've already started practicing some basic routines, but I really do want to spend the time getting the fundamentals right, even if it's just the CP.

Thank you all for the great advice - it's been a real help
Jaxon
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Kalamazoo, Mi.
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A tip with any palms. Once you got the basic's of a palm down. In other words you can do it with your hand looking natural. A great thing to do then is to just palm a coin as much as you can during the day. While watching TV, Eating and so forth.

Although this will be good practice on the mechanical level. It's also great on a psychological level. It allows you to be use to hiding something there without paying attention to it or acting like you're hiding something.

Sorry I can't be muck more help on the mechanics of it without being there with you in person. But the above was very helpful to me.

Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
Gatehouse
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Thanks Jaxon - I tried this to a small extent earlier today. Managed to keep a coin in CP for the whole train journey to work - only 45 minutes long, but still, not bad for now lol.

Don't think I've got the mechanics quite right still - I've been experimenting with placing the coin in slightly different positions to make it feel more comfortable and I'm sort of happy with it for now, but we'll see how it develops Smile

I wonder if perhaps I'm expecting too much too soon, but I'll keep working on it nonetheless hehe
Flyswatter
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Quote:
On 2010-01-11 10:13, Jaz wrote:
Few will ever CP with fingers wide apart and flat.


Just wondering, is that possible?
Jaxon
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Kalamazoo, Mi.
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Possible? Yes. But there's no reason to CP with fingers spread and fingers wide apart. It's not a bad exercise to stretch your hand and fingers while doing it. But that will make your hand look unnatural.

Hang your hands to your side right now. Or look at someone with their hands to their side or relaxed. The hands have a natural slightly closed curve to it. Like this image.

Image


Ron Jaxon
Image


After regaining my ability to hear after 20 years of deafness. I learned that there is magic all around you. The simplest sounds that amazed me you probably ignore. Look and listen around you right now. You'll find something you didn't notice before.
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