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Jason Fox
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I've been doing magic for almost 10 years and I'm trying to audit every single move I do when I perform a trick or routine. I'm looking for books and DVDs on misdirection, the psychology behind gestures and sleights, the art of body language for magicians. I've studied all of my favorite magicians to the point where I realized that most of the greats teach the tricks but they are so very disciplined they don't even realize some of the subtle things they do to misdirect peoples attention. I'm really into psychology and human interactions so even if it's a text book let me know and I'll check it out.

I've read:
The definitive guide to body language
Magic and showmanship
Pick pocketing for fun and for profit
David stone's real secrets of magic vol 1&2
and some others, but all recommendations are welcome
The Burnaby Kid
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John Ramsay, Tommy Wonder and Gary Kurtz (specifically, "Leading with your Head") should give you plenty to go on for the rest of your life.
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stijnhommes
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Although it's primarily about other stuff. Darwin Ortiz's "Designing Miracles" touches on why misdirection works and discusses misdirection in both time and space.
Spellbinder
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In your initial post for this thread, which is entitled "Principles of Misdirection", I noticed that you did not list any of the principles you already know. It would be helpful for you to actually make a list of these principles that you have learned FIRST, and then ask others which principles you may have missed.

It is also helpful if you recognize that "misdirection" is a misleading term for what actually occurs and you can redefine what term or terms you should actually be discussing and about which you should be seeking information.
Professor Spellbinder

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stijnhommes
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Quote:
On 2010-01-12 02:41, Spellbinder wrote:
It is also helpful if you recognize that "misdirection" is a misleading term for what actually occurs and you can redefine what term or terms you should actually be discussing and about which you should be seeking information.
That is a good point. One which, if I remember correctly, Darwin Ortiz also mentions. He prefers to discuss it as guiding attention somewhere rather than misdirecting attention away from someplace.
Hansel
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Tommy Wonder, Jonh Carney and Tobias Beckwith.
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davidpaul$
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A very helpful resource is Rafael Benatar's cups and balls DVD. He discusses a principle in detail called " In Transit Action" very vital in all forms of magic.

........also check here: http://www.leirpoll.com/misdirection/misdirection.htm

and..
Manuel Muerte's DVD "Done By Misdirection".....these are but a few references that have helped me..
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ldrosenblum
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TheFox-

In my forthcoming book (see below) I have a chapter on inadvertent imitation. I organize part of the discussion around magician misdirection and how one's visual attention (and sometimes eye-gaze) is reflexively guided by watching another person's eye-gaze (e.g., of a magician). The chapter mostly discusses the laboratory research on the issue, but you may find it useful. I'd be happy to send you a draft of that chapter, with references, if you're interested.

-Larry R.
Check out my new book on our 'perceptual superpowers': www.LawrenceRosenblum.com . It discusses new research on the psychology of misdirection and the neuroplasticity behind expert motor skills.
Tom Fenton
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John Carney's "The Book of Secrets" is a great resource on misdirection and a whole lot more.
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ralphs007
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[quote]On 2010-01-12 02:41, Spellbinder wrote:
In your initial post for this thread, which is entitled "Principles of Misdirection", I noticed that you did not list any of the principles you already know. It would be helpful for you to actually make a list of these principles that you have learned FIRST, and then ask others which principles you may have missed.

Great idea ! This would make some very interesting reading.
"You can easily judge the character of a man by how he treats those who can do nothing for him".
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scaevola
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I recommend Juan Tamariz's "The Five Points of Magic"
mgcpwrs
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Good question - thanks
Everybody had great ideas for this - I now have lots more to add to my reading list.
Now I just need to find the time.
Jason Fox
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So many Good recommendations! Tommy Wonder and Juan Tamariz are awesome; I’ll check their books out first.

ldrosenblum, that sounds like something I would love to read! I PM'd you my e-mail address.


Quote:
On 2010-01-12 02:41, Spellbinder wrote:
In your initial post for this thread, which is entitled "Principles of Misdirection", I noticed that you did not list any of the principles you already know. It would be helpful for you to actually make a list of these principles that you have learned FIRST, and then ask others which principles you may have missed.

It is also helpful if you recognize that "misdirection" is a misleading term for what actually occurs and you can redefine what term or terms you should actually be discussing and about which you should be seeking information.


I take it you mean aside from knocking them unconscious and then doing the watch steal? Hahahahaha, only kidding – it's not that I missed anything; I just want more in-depth info to get the creative juices flowing.
I've been doing magic for almost 10 years, so I'm sure I've got the idea mostly down (besides I've been doing watch steals, some minor body loading, coin to eye, coin to spectator's shoulder, card to forehead, and during my fledgling routine for cups & balls I do a vanish where I place a ball in my hand while misdirecting as I walk away from the table only to reveal that the ball is on top of the cup..Very basic, but I’ve been doing the others for a while. ). I realized how good I actually am with spectators and controlling attention and want to take it to the next level. You have a great point; I didn't define the question enough. Before you read the rest though, keep in mind that I'm looking for less that accomplishes more. I'm looking for subtle polished suggestions to the audience via word or movement. I think Tommy and Juan's book will be great!

So, I made a list:

1) Asking a question, or telling a story, or saying a command like "look" but with kids it's more like "look look look look look look here here here here watch watch watch” sounds silly but its true....hahahah
2) Looking where I want them to look – or better said giving my full attention to the place or object or person I want everyone else to give their full attention to.
3) Moving a person or their hands to a more convenient position to mask a move or body load into place
4) Creating suspicion in the wrong place
Most of these I came up with myself on the spot while squirming as people GLARED at my hands.
5) Have a cannon blast go off to conceal the secret spoon bend (Amazing Jonathan)

This is a topic for another thread but the other would be humor)
The Major things I can think of is that I lack is Humor and humor is a great way to make people go inside there own heads. Wow, writing things down really helps get them into perspective. My brother (3 years my junior) is a really funny guy...I mean stand-up make lots of money funny, and he claims that he got funny by emulating me. I’m not sure if I should take that as a compliment or slug him in the nose, but I’m an optimist. On occasionally have moments of comedic genius and have everyone rolling with gut busting laughter, so there is potential but there is something wrong with my delivery, execution, or timing. Mostly I think I don't do the setup enough and the jokes will come across as incongruent to the setting. Bottom line is I know what is funny, but I don’t know how to setup a joke. So I don't even try to be funny unless I know 100% it's a slam dunk and I've had a few laughs already.
Spellbinder
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The reason I asked you to state some principles you have already learned is because when you can put them into words, you can act on them precisely. Many people do these things instinctively, but because they don't know exactly what they are doing, never having put the principles into words, they don't perform consistently and it's sort of "hit or miss" with them.

The five things you listed are all related to one single principle. You are sort of on the right track with getting them to look where you want them to look, but the actual principle can be stated more simply: "The audience looks where you look." Even the cannon blast is not effective unless you look at the cannon when it goes off. You might get them to blink with a loud noise, but their instincts are to find where the noise came from by following eyes, and your eyes are the most important to them.

I'll give you a second principle and see if you can come up with examples: "The greater motion covers the lesser motion." As with all the other principles, this is most effective when combined with the first principle..."The audience looks where you look."
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

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Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Vick
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Quote:
On 2010-01-11 22:30, Jason Fox wrote:
.....................to the point where I realized that most of the greats teach the tricks but they are so very disciplined they don't even realize some of the subtle things they do to misdirect peoples attention..............


I strongly disagree, top performers fully understand direction, apply it and write at length about it


and as others have said

Read Tommy Wonder - The Books of Wonder
Pick something by John Carney and read that
Check out Michael Ammar's work or perhaps Ortiz's work if you enjoy close up

After you finish those we can please contniue

Perhaps even re-read Magic and Showmanship
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Jason Fox
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Quote:
I'll give you a second principle and see if you can come up with examples: "The greater motion covers the lesser motion." As with all the other principles, this is most effective when combined with the first principle..."The audience looks where you look."


Oh, yeah I forgot to list those I use that a lot

ring Thing
the pass
karate coin
supra97
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I didn't see anyone put this one.
Dariel Fitzkee, magic by misdirection.
supra
Spellbinder
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Related to the principle of "the greater motion covers the lesser motion" is the principle of contrast. No motion is needed at all to apply this. A bright color captures attention more strongly than a dull color (notice I said dull, not dark). This time I won't let you get off so easily by just listing a couple of tricks that use the principle. You can list as few or as many tricks as you wish, but explain HOW or WHY each trick you list is an example of the principle. Don't be offended by my use of the word "trick." It's just us magicians here.
Professor Spellbinder

Professor Emeritus at the Turkey Buzzard Academy of Magik, Witchcraft and Wizardry

http://www.magicnook.com

Publisher of The Wizards' Journals
Jason Fox
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Quote:
On 2010-01-14 20:20, Spellbinder wrote:
Related to the principle of "the greater motion covers the lesser motion" is the principle of contrast. No motion is needed at all to apply this. A bright color captures attention more strongly than a dull color (notice I said dull, not dark). This time I won't let you get off so easily by just listing a couple of tricks that use the principle. You can list as few or as many tricks as you wish, but explain HOW or WHY each trick you list is an example of the principle. Don't be offended by my use of the word "trick." It's just us magicians here.


Thank you for trying to help. If you have some trick titles that employ the principals and that I could research as well as put into practice, I think that would be more effective. Especially since I learn by doing is much more enjoyable.
Jason Fox
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Quote:
On 2010-01-14 16:55, supra97 wrote:
I didn't see anyone put this one.
Dariel Fitzkee, magic by misdirection.
supra


sounds great!

Posted: Jan 19, 2010 6:08pm
So for reading and viewing items


Tommy Wonder - The Books of Wonder
John Ramsay
Gary Kurtz
Dariel Fitzkee - Magic by misdirection
Darwin Ortiz's - Designing Miracles
John Carney's - The Book of Secrets
Tobias Beckwith
Rafael Benatar - cups and balls DVD
Manuel Muerte - Done By Misdirection DVD
Juan Tamariz's - The Five Points of Magic
Ldrosenblum’s – upcoming book (if you get the title let me know)
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