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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Possibly not as preposterous an idea as it seems at first blush:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/arts......1433158/
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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tommy Eternal Order Devil's Island 16544 Posts |
She be an ugly one if so.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.
Tommy |
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
What a poorly done piece. If the woman in questions father was Jewish and her mother was Christian then the woman would NOT be a 'Jew' because the religion passes from mother to child not from the father. This means if your mom isn't Jewish you are not one either unless you go through conversion even if you were raised inside a synogue and named Jewy Jewenstine. Because the researcher couldn't figure that basic aspect out the rest is in question.
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-17 15:13, MagicSanta wrote: Wrong, as that is only one meaning of the word. "Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who were born to a Jewish family regardless of whether or not they follow the religion, those who have some Jewish ancestral background or lineage (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), and people without any Jewish ancestral background or lineage who have formally converted to Judaism and therefore are followers of the religion." Source: Fowler, Jeaneane D. (1997). World Religions: An Introduction for Students. Sussex Academic Press. pp. 7. ISBN 1898723486. "In common speech, the word "Jew" is used to refer to all of the physical and spiritual descendants of Jacob/Israel, as well as to the patriarchs Abraham and Isaac and their wives, and the word "Judaism" is used to refer to their beliefs. Technically, this usage is inaccurate, just as it is technically inaccurate to use the word "Indian" to refer to the original inhabitants of the Americas. However, this technically inaccurate usage is common both within the Jewish community and outside of it ... According to Jewish law, a child born to a Jewish mother or an adult who has converted to Judaism is considered a Jew; one does not have to reaffirm their Jewishness or practice any of the laws of the Torah to be Jewish. According to Reform Judaism, a person is a Jew if they were born to either a Jewish mother or a Jewish father" http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsou......ew1.html
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Josh the Superfluous Inner circle The man of 1881 Posts |
Everything that balducci sites is contrary to what I've been taught. I was married by an ultra reformed liberal rabbi. He seemed to believe that Santa's concept was correct.
What do you want in a site? "Honesty, integrity and decency." -Mike Doogan
"I hate it, I hate my ironic lovechild. I didn't even have anything to do with it" Josh #2 |
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
This sure went off topic fast, but I guess the point is that the definition of the word "Jew" is not entirely clear cut. In 2010, today, it has a modern secular meaning different and more inclusive than the one Santa and your Rabbi would restrict it to.
Here is an old Time article from 1962 related to this: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/articl......,00.html Look how broadly Israel defined a Jew back in 1962: "Immigration authorities use an administrative order that defines a Jew as anybody who professes to be one and has not embraced another religion." I have no idea what it does now, or what the result of the court case mentioned in the article was. It doesn't matter. Just pointing out that the meaning of the word is and has long been ambiguous in many contexts.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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Chance Inner circle 1385 Posts |
Jewishness is not the major point of the article. Gender is.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I'll let the Jewish statement slide then for you Chance. As for Balducci the woman was stated to be a Jewish person based on parentage, not in deference to Israels statement in 1962. As for Shakespear being a woman I don't care who Shakespear was or wasn't, I want to know who Jack the Ripper was and...and...wait, do you think Erdnase was Shakespear?
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balducci Loyal user Canada 227 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-01-17 18:15, Chance wrote: Furthermore, the theory is not actually that Shakespeare was a woman but rather that a particular woman wrote the works attributed to him.
Make America Great Again! - Trump in 2020 ... "We're a capitalistic society. I go into business, I don't make it, I go bankrupt. They're not going to bail me out. I've been on welfare and food stamps. Did anyone help me? No." - Craig T. Nelson, actor.
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Dang...I found some on line definitions on what a Jew is on line, must be true then, here it is:
One can most easily tell a Jew by his nose. The Jewish nose is bent at its point. It looks like the number six. We call it the Jewish six. Many non-Jews also have bent noses. But their noses bend upwards, not downwards. Such a nose is a hook nose or an eagle nose. It is not at all like a Jewish nose." One can also recognize a Jew by his lips. His lips are usually puffy. The lower lip often protrudes. The eyes are different too. The eyelids are mostly thicker and more fleshy than ours. The Jewish look is wary and piercing. One can tell from his eyes that he is a deceitful person." "Jews are usually small to mid-sized. They have short legs. Their arms are often very short too. Many Jews are bow-legged and flat-footed. They often have a low, slanting forehead, a receding forehead. Many criminals have such a receding forehead. The Jews are criminals too. Their hair is usually dark and often curly like a Negro's. Their ears are very large, and they look like the handles of a coffee cup." One can recognize a Jew from his movements and behavior. The Jew moves his head back and forth. His gait is shuffling and unsteady. The Jew moves his hands when he talks. He "jabbers." His voice is often odd. He talks through his nose. Jews often have an unpleasant sweetish odor. If you have a good nose, you can smell the Jews." the nice little childrens book this all was in ends with the following poem: "From a Jew's face The wicked Devil speaks to us, The Devil who, in every country, Is known as an evil plague. Would we from the Jew be free, Again be cheeful and happy, Then must youth fight with us To get rid of the Jewish Devil." I did find another site on what a Jew is but found it so offensive I could not put it up here nor was I willing to put up a link. |
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Nosher Loyal user 261 Posts |
Back to Shakespeare...
An interesting article. I think that if Lanier was as erudite as the article suggests and attempted, as is also suggested, to leave clues in the oeuvre as to her authorship - I think the clues would have been far more subtle and, once found, far more unambiguous.
Escapemaster-in-chief from all sorts of houdingplaces - Finnegans Wake
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
The problem stems from the fact that some members of the Jewish community wish to have their cake an eat it, at least in the UK.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00nf01w A religion when it comes to freedom to select on the basis of faith when it comes to publicly funded Jewish schools. A race when it comes to recieving protection under racial hatred laws.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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Jonathan Townsend Eternal Order Ossining, NY 27297 Posts |
Geeze, but not a Sephardic Jew? What's the matter- going for the black thing was too much of a reach?
...to all the coins I've dropped here
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
Davit I read the article and while I find the term you use to be harsh I agree with the Rabbi. First off the Jewish people did not write the act which you reference and they are not racial hatred laws they are designed to give some sense of protection to minority groups. If a school is based on an orthidox belief system then that school will, by definition, have stricter criteria for attending if within the limits of the law. Enough about the limeys. A good example is in California the school I attended was a Catholic prep school and a very good one. I am not catholic and yet I attended as did a number of Budhist and Hindi kids (and others of whatever belief), they still do, because it is the top rated school in the region. The only thing the parents had to agree too was that they knew the school was religious based and their kids would be attending classes on Catholic belief and they WOULD do the homework. If a parent didn't want their Hindi or Baptist kid listening to that doctrine then they could not attend, simple as that. A parent would have to be a raging idiot to sue the school for that stand but guess what? In California they likely could sue and win! Thus why I left the state....
Lastly...Jewish people are wonderful people. |
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Father Photius Grammar Host El Paso, TX (Formerly Amarillo) 17161 Posts |
Tommy said it all, if he (she) was a she, she was one UGLY woman.
"Now here's the man with the 25 cent hands, that two bit magician..."
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I've always thought of Shakespeare as Franklin W. Dixon.
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Cliffg37 Inner circle Long Beach, CA 2491 Posts |
LOL Santa -- A hardy pat on the back for you
Magic is like Science,
Both are fun if you do it right! |
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stoneunhinged Inner circle 3067 Posts |
First, it needs to be repeated (are you listening Father) that the article does not say that Shakespeare was a woman, but that the plays were actually authored by Amelia Bassano Lanier. Here's a picture of her:
Free Image Hosting by ImageBam.com Secondly, I went through a rather long phase where I was fascinated by the authorship question, so I find this theory great fun and quite provocative. My own opinion is that there are two kinds of arguments, one weak and one more plausible. The first kind of argument is basically that only a well-educated, widely experienced person who have written such a high level of literature--if, in fact anyone is capable of doing such. This argument hardly accounts for the existence of genius, however. The second kind of argument examines everything we know about the historical Shakespeare--which is remarkably little--such as the contents of his will, only to find it doesn't seem to add up. I'm most intrigued by the cipher camp, however, which requires neither of the above kinds of argument. Anyway, I think Santa should post a picture of himself. I'd like to if he looks Jewish. |
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Davit Sicseek Inner circle 1818 Posts |
Quote:
Davit I read the article and while I find the term you use to be harsh I agree with the Rabbi. First off the Jewish people did not write the act which you reference and they are not racial hatred laws they are designed to give some sense of protection to minority groups. If a school is based on an orthidox belief system then that school will, by definition, have stricter criteria for attending if within the limits of the law. Enough about the limeys. A good example is in California the school I attended was a Catholic prep school and a very good one. I am not catholic and yet I attended as did a number of Budhist and Hindi kids (and others of whatever belief), they still do, because it is the top rated school in the region. The only thing the parents had to agree too was that they knew the school was religious based and their kids would be attending classes on Catholic belief and they WOULD do the homework. If a parent didn't want their Hindi or Baptist kid listening to that doctrine then they could not attend, simple as that. A parent would have to be a raging idiot to sue the school for that stand but guess what? In California they likely could sue and win! Thus why I left the state.... Some Jewish people are wonderful. Some Muslims are wonderful too and even some Christians. Atheists are typically the most wonderfulest of all. I think you are missing the controversy. In the UK it is illegal to racially discriminate, but publicly funded faith schools are allowed to select pupils on the basis of their faith. Personally I don't see any place at all for publicly funded state schools, but that's another matter. Your example isn't particularly relevant as the issue typically pertains to faith schools that are over subscribed. So the question really is whether being Jewish is a matter of belief or a matter of genetic lineage. If it's the former then that's no problem. If it's the latter then the Jewish schools are practicing a form of racial discrimination and are attempting to get an excemption from race discirmination laws as a result of their supernatural beliefs. Now I'm not an expert on the theology of Judaism, but from what I saw of that video and also the original radio programme there is a differing of opinion within the Jewish community as to what constitutes being Jewish. Should it be 'decided' that the 'jewish mother' test is the only determinant of being Jewish, then while it's unfortunate for Jewish faith schools, it would effectivly prevent them from selecting students on the matter of their faith. As a supporter of secular democracy, I'm simply not going to entertain such exceptions for the holy orders - and orthadox Rabbis can complain all they want that their god is being branded a racist.
Send me the truth: davitsicseek@gmail.com
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MagicSanta Inner circle Northern Nevada 5841 Posts |
I tend to prefer athiest myself....
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