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Kameron Messmer
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I'm not new to magic, I actually teach magic, but I often forget the begining. I am teaching a kid now and he has learned a lot, so I feel like I am running out of material. What are some stuff you guys are learning as beginers I may have overlooked?
Strange Tasting Fish Sticks
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Sponge balls are great for kids to learn, they teach you timing, sleight of hand, misdirection and audience management and get some of the best reactions.
Kameron Messmer
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Good Idea. I think he may own them, don't think I've gone over them yet...
Brad Burt
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Check out the Mark Wilson course. It's easy to pull from it's contents, etc. Best,
Brad Burt
mmreed
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Spongeballs

Linking Rings

cups and balls

rope magic



4 primary areas that can fill routines for a lifetime
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment
Vick
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Please think this through as you have undertaken a huge responsibility

You don't have a Syllabus? No lesson plans, no course curriculum?

How would you feel if you paid a professor and they made it up as you went along?


I find it rather amazing you can teach a billy goat magic. All you think of your pupil is to call them a kid in a public forum?

There can and should be a teacher/student bond and respect. As a teacher of magic you are now responsible for your student and their development in the art.

It's not just tricks and effects. What history have you taught this student? How many "classes" didn't include learning an effect but are history?
How many times have you sat and watched any of the great artist with your student and went over what you saw?

Watch a Cardini video and you have a lot of lessons



You, the student, all who have went before you and the art deserve better


If you must continue .......

Watched a few of your videos, you did a good job of acting with the wand. Is your pupil ready for acting lessons, have you been giving them?

Maybe you should point your student to a set of Tarbell until you work out an actual class structure.


How much do you know about the Chavez school of Magic? If you haven't already take some time to read up about them
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Kameron Messmer
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I havent put together a plan yet. It doesn't seem like it needs to be quite so formal. Most children I teach just want to learn some tricks for their friends and family. They are not wanting to become professional entertainers. I am showing principles, routines, acts, the basics. He cares little about the history and art. I have little time to go over that sort of thing anyways. "Kid" is just the modern vernacular. I see no problem with the term. Sorry for the disrespect. didn't think anything of it. This particular student is unique, as in very A.D.D. as well as his father that sits in on the lesson. I wouldnt be able to do what you are suggestion. Not with them. They will pace back and forth as you explain something, or perform something even!
So I am working with what I have. I am curious what you mean by action with the wand. What did you think of the videos as a whole. I seem to be doing different magic compared to you, but I am interested in your opinion.
Again, this is a special case, the other students I have had were a little more focused, and he just wants to learns some cool tricks, not become a professional prestidigitator. Sorry if that cheapens it, but I don't think this student is going to single handedly cheapen magic. I'll let Criss do that. j/k It's no worse than these kids on you tube giving away secrets in my opinion...
stijnhommes
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Quote:
On 2010-01-23 00:57, Vick wrote:

It's not just tricks and effects. What history have you taught this student? How many "classes" didn't include learning an effect but are history?
How many times have you sat and watched any of the great artist with your student and went over what you saw?
While I agree that magic history should be part of any magic lesson, I think giving a class purely focussed on theory is a wrong approach. Lessons are exactly like shows. You need to grab the kid's attention and keep it. If you've got a lesson without an effect, you're going to bore them pretty quickly. I'd say mixing both is the better approach.
Kameron Messmer
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Again, that isn't what this kid wants or expects. I agree MacGyver, it would bore him and the father would stop coming as well. They want to learn magic like they want to know puzzles.
kendavis
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You can and should (my opinion) infuse history, technique, and etiquette, into any instruction to children and teens. I have been successfully teaching magic to children for over 30 years. I always make sure to include magic etiquette, the importance of patter and presentation, how to practice, along with a little history while teaching the tricks. My classes have included numerous A.D.D. students and children with autism. Just like when I perform, my teaching delivery is important. I have kept children spellbound talking about Hardin, Houdini, and others. I do it in small chunks while teaching the tricks. My classes usually are limited to 15 children or young adults and they keep coming back for more so I must be doing something right.

Mark Wilson, Klutz, Copperfield's Project Magic, and Anderson's Magic Digest are just a few that have great beginner's tricks that I use.

Keep up the teaching. It is very rewarding!
Vick
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You could share art

but instead choose little puzzles??!!!


Do you really understand your responsibility as a teacher?
You set the rules and conditions
The pupil lives up to them
Or they goes somewhere else for their little tricks and puzzles instead of learning art!!!

You should be much better than kids giving away whatever on You Tube, we both know that


This approach saddens me ;-(


About the Wand, on your video explaining the wand effect you do a good job of acting with the wand
Yes this is known by every schoolchild but you present it well
It looks like in your mind you really see it stuck so the audience sees it stuck



Think this through, a few effects taught, then let them prepare a short show 3, maybe 5 to 8 at the most 12 minutes
You them get to teach acting and presentation without them having to sit through acting and presentation.
Then they get to show what they have learned


"You've been coming to my class for ___ weeks now, do you think you are ready for a very short show?
The answer does not matter, if it's yes them good, if not you tell them "Well I do"

Where they go with their "show" will let you know what artist to show them, quick video clips - "Have you seen ______? Watch this it's what you are working on"

Ask you student- "It was done well because ?

Before you know it you are teaching history with You Tube


You're a teacher, you owe it to yourself, the students, the art and all who have gone before you


Think what Robert-Houdin, Wonder, Vernon or Alexander would think of your little puzzle teaching?



Finally, how would you feel if I referred to you as a kid?
I respect myself too much to resort to the vernacular of the peasantry ;-)
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Kameron Messmer
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I know I can't win, we'll just have to agree to disagree... again some people want art and some people want puzzles. I'll give them what they want. I cant afford to chase them away with my forcing art on them. To me it would be like a student wanting to learn piano but I force them to learn drums, guitar, and flute first. It's all music, it would help them but why force them to learn things that would make them quit. I am not going to be the elitist snooty Magic man. And I wouldnt care if you called me a kid. Your problem with it makes me wonder what year you are from. I have NEVER had anyone have a problem with calling a child a kid. Call a child a kid once. see what happens. Nothing. Call a child a kid in front of their parents. nothing.
anyways thanks for the feedback....p.s. I think it is ironic you put "Magic would be great, if not for magicians" in your signature...
Kameron Messmer
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The word 'kids' comes from 'kinders' which if you say quickly sounds almost the same. 'Kinders' is a shortened form of kindergarten children. Also from German word for children.
domno
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Kameron, I think you are doing good things. Not every one that takes martial arts will end up being a ninja and not all little league players will end up baseball stars. I think Vick may be right about a curriculum though. Some kids will just want to learn a few tricks and be satisfied. However, if you get a student that is serious and would really like to explore magic, it may be a good idea to find a book you can work out of. It doesn't have to be a as structured as the Tarbell Courses, but something that moves at a methodical pace.

If you don't want to provide a book you could recommend a few to him and let him go get one. Then you could help him work through it. You probably know your students well, and would know what kind of books, (or even DVD's although I wouldn't recommend it for teaching) may be interesting to them.

Also, kids are kids. Up until they are 18 they are still kids. In my profession, I'm becoming an old man at 28, hence, I sometimes refer to people in their early 20's as kids. Sometimes it has to do with experience and not so much age. I have never thought of it to be a derogatory term though.
Kameron Messmer
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Thanks Domno! Im glad not everyone wants to beat me up... I like your ninja/baseball analogy. I do want to get a curriculum or something like that. This...kid honeslt just walked into our store and I said we do magic lessons and the dad said, "how about right now?" one thing I wouldnt want to do is work through a book straight through cause they often go in sections. I'd be doing all cards for months... I would probably try to change it up. I try to do one or two different kinds of things a lesson, and not all cards etc..
I'm 27 and I find myself calling teens kids... I never thought it was derogatory either...
Magic38
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Hi kameron that's great you teach children try teaching them Dlite where you
make a bright red light appear from your ears and nose.

Also levitations are good as well like making a dollar bill float a playing card etc.

Also the magic coloring book is easy to learn.


Another good trick is the french drop making a coin vanish from your
hand and reappear from the spectators nose.

Hope this helps
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Fantasy Knight
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Kameron you keep doing what your doing, Vicks just being a little harsh on you there. If my grandfather had never taught me my first magic effect I wouldn't be sitting here today talking to you about this, and he was far from a teacher. I think what your doing is great, but remember to much can also be the wrong thing also.
Why not take what hes already learned and show him how to present it in a routine now, cause the key to magic is not always what we know its how were presenting it.

Rick Anderson
Grew up near one of the greatest minds in magic the late Stewart James, in a town called Wallaceburg just 15 mins from Courtright where James could be found, time and time again he would inspire me to always be creative and just love all magic.
Vick
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I have high expectations and demand art

Sometimes I am casutic but it's mostly frustration that you can not understand and many have earned.

That you can't see the damage and failing of only teaching "tricks" astounds me. That any of you think it's ok to just "teach tricks"


Kameron you have this great opportunity and a very special bond in our hands, you could do so much with it. You could mold and shape youngs minds, give them direction and an incredible learning experience. Something special and unique they can treasure their entire lives

Is that all you want for the future generations? No art, no respect, no respect for the art?

All for a few cheap bucks with a weak "well that's what they want"

Your analogy about drums and piano doesn't fit


You don't seem to get the idea behind using the term kids, it's not respectful
Are you teaching your students to respect themselves, you and the art?


Let us consider the lofty position that perfomring magic once held and how that all changed.
How Thurston, Kellar, Robert-Houdin, John Anderson, Socar, Lance Burton, David Copperfield, Doug Henning, Penn and Teller and many others held audinces in thrall. Did they do it with a few cheap tricks? Or with real showmanship?
Was Houdini in his day bigger than any rock star or rapper?
Did ten of thousands turn out to see if Houdini would live or die?

We have this rich history and many feel it's ok just to teach little puzzles?

We deserve better and owe it to the students, ourselves and all who went before. Our current and furture audeinces certainly deserve better

and my signature says it all, Magic would be great if not (for many so called or self professed) for magicians

Perhaps when you have traveled a little further you will understand


Think about why you first learned magic (or tricks) to know how, to be cool, whatever reason. Then you wanted to show someone... take advantage of that progression

and again Think what Robert-Houdin, Wonder, Vernon or Alexander would think of your little puzzle teaching?
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Vick
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I put this in another thread but it may help to watch this

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=......s&hl=en#

Perhaps it explains it better than I ever could and much nicer

Whatever your opinion of my writing and ranting this video is much different and really is worth a watch, forget the intro part (about 20 seconds) and get to the meat
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domno
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Vick - That was a very good video. Its very inspiring. Those that decide to stay with magic should want to do a good job of it. My point is just that most kids don't walk into a magic shop looking for a Jedi/Padawan relationship. And if you try to force feed that from the beginning, you will end up with a disinterested kid who will grow into an adult, whose only experience with magic was a bad one. When I was a kid, I bought a lot of silly tricks, and was pretty happy with them. Then one day a man named Tony Hasini, (not sure about spelling) in a little magic shop in Victoria, Canada, told me that if I really wanted to be good at magic I needed to buy this book instead of a bunch of 5 and 10 dollar trinkets, and I needed to study it. He was absolutely right and I got the book. But if all the other guys at other magic shops before that didn't feed my childish need for instant gratification, I may have lost interest fast. After all, what kid wants to read a big a** book any way?

Kameron - No one says you have to start at the beginning of the book and end at the end. If you find a book worth working out of, you could pick one or two effects out of select chapters for each lesson.
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