The Magic Café
Username:
Password:
[ Lost Password ]
  [ Forgot Username ]
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » R. Paul Wilson (Extreme Possibilities) DVD (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
Prof. Pabodie
View Profile
Veteran user
318 Posts

Profile of Prof. Pabodie
I am not friends with R. Paul Wilson, but I have met him on several occasions and I have seen him perform close-up as well as in the parlour of the Castle. His chops are undeniably fantastic and I always found him to be quite funny. I also appreciate silence in a performance; I dislike when a performer (of any type) feels the need to always fill the air with sound, especially if that sound is a bunch of tired gags. Paul's humor comes from him and who he is. I think that should be the goal of all of us.
RS1963
View Profile
Inner circle
2719 Posts

Profile of RS1963
Quote:
On 2010-01-25 20:50, tntjr wrote:


Am I the only one who sees the discomfort in the audience with the clever line: "This is a very expensive magic wand. It's a stick." ??? They are trying to be polite. That's why they are there.

Agreed that the arrogance really doesn't come through on the clip.
[/quote]

Obviously you are. Was it a joke that would make you laugh so hard that if you had stitches in your abdomen they would come undone? Of course not. It was just a throw away line. True it isn't to everyone's taste but it isn't something that is going to make spectators think Paul is a donkey's rear end either.
Double J
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of Double J
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 14:38, RS1963 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-25 20:50, tntjr wrote:


Am I the only one who sees the discomfort in the audience with the clever line: "This is a very expensive magic wand. It's a stick." ??? They are trying to be polite. That's why they are there.

Agreed that the arrogance really doesn't come through on the clip.


Obviously you are. Was it a joke that would make you laugh so hard that if you had stitches in your abdomen they would come undone? Of course not. It was just a throw away line. True it isn't to everyone's taste but it isn't something that is going to make spectators think Paul is a donkey's rear end either.


Obviously he isn't. I noticed exactly that.

Humor is Humor, sometimes you get it, sometimes you don't. All is not liked by everyone. But let's face it, There is NO humor here. He doesn't seem like he wants to be there at all. Almost like He's been put out.

Still trying to get thru the 3rd effect but I keep falling asleep.
tntjr
View Profile
Elite user
482 Posts

Profile of tntjr
Apparently I'm mistaken.

R. Paul Wilson is the most talented and entertaining magician on the planet. Not only will he fool you with his flawless sleight of hand, but he will have you rolling on the floor with laughter. You cannot help but be impressed with his professional, polished demeanor. His skill, not only with his fingers, but also with spectators is unmatched. His infectious personality gives me warm fuzzies and makes me want to give him a big hug.
Steven Keyl
View Profile
Inner circle
Washington, D.C.
2566 Posts

Profile of Steven Keyl
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 14:11, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
I suppose I'm somewhat biased, as I had the chance to meet and briefly talk cards with R Paul Wilson on one occasion in Blackpool. His approach to magic and performance, along with Gary Middleton's, has been extremely influential on me. There's an understated element of play, rather like an offer being made in Improv Theater, that I just don't think the L&L crowd knew was there. It's like a game of deadpan chicken, and in close-up magic, with the right counterpart, it can be very entertaining.


But isn't showmanship, at least in part, adapting to your audience instead of hoping they will adapt to you?

Having said that, let me be clear--I don't own the DVDs in question so am making more of a general comment. I do own the Paul Wilson RRTCM DVDs and found them to be quite good. His performing style may be a bit drier than some but I use magic DVDs for educational purposes, not to be entertained.
Steven Keyl - The Human Whisperer!

Come visit Magic Book Report.com!

"If you ever find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause, and reflect." --Mark Twain
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3108 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 16:25, Steven Keyl wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 14:11, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
I suppose I'm somewhat biased, as I had the chance to meet and briefly talk cards with R Paul Wilson on one occasion in Blackpool. His approach to magic and performance, along with Gary Middleton's, has been extremely influential on me. There's an understated element of play, rather like an offer being made in Improv Theater, that I just don't think the L&L crowd knew was there. It's like a game of deadpan chicken, and in close-up magic, with the right counterpart, it can be very entertaining.


But isn't showmanship, at least in part, adapting to your audience instead of hoping they will adapt to you?


Not always. Tommy Wonder was very good at presentation, but preferred not having unexpected deviances from the script.

That said, I don't think what happened on the Wilson DVDs was a situation of Wilson not being adaptive. I think they were just passive as all git.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
DStachowiak
View Profile
Inner circle
Baltimore, MD
2158 Posts

Profile of DStachowiak
Some of us like Paul. Some of you don't.
I've been told there are people who like Adam Sandler.
That's Show Biz, I guess.

Don
Woke up.
Fell out of bed.
Dragged a comb across m' head.
Steven Youell
View Profile
V.I.P.
3866 Posts

Profile of Steven Youell
I do not believe that it is possible to judge how good someone is at Sleight of Hand OR entertaining an audience from a commercially produced video tape.

Ever.

First, the performance is taped under artificial conditions. Second, I have yet to see a joke that will work every single time in front of every single audience. Third, working while you're on camera (even for an audience) is vastly different than working off camera. Fourth, even if the other three could somehow be circumvented, there is enormous pressure regarding time because of the cost of the studio, deadlines, etc.

I wonder how many people in this thread who have passed judgement on Mr. Wilson have produced a magic video of any kind under studio conditions? How many have worked in front of an audience while everyone knows they're part of a production team?

Very few, I'd bet.

SEY
Steven Youell
View Profile
V.I.P.
3866 Posts

Profile of Steven Youell
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 16:25, Steven Keyl wrote:
But isn't showmanship, at least in part, adapting to your audience instead of hoping they will adapt to you?


Quote:
On 2010-01-26 16:46, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Not always. Tommy Wonder was very good at presentation, but preferred not having unexpected deviances from the script.


These are two different things. One can prefer not to deviate from the script and still adapt to the audience when things happen. I believe that being able to adapt to deviations IS part of showmanship or presentational ability. And although I've never familiarized myself with Mr. Wonder's work, I'll bet he could adapt to such deviations.

SEY
Scott F. Guinn
View Profile
Inner circle
"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
6584 Posts

Profile of Scott F. Guinn
I, for one, HAVE put out a DVD, and I can vouch for the truth of Steve's comments above.

A guy just can't win...

Right before my DVD came out, TONS of people were griping and moaning about the "overblown" "exaggerated" and "phony" reactions of the L&L studio audiences. At that time, it was the single biggest complaint people had about magic DVDs.

So I did my shoot with four people around a dining room table. Guess what the single biggest complaint about my DVD was?

"The audience seemed very reserved" "The spectators just didn't seem into the performance", etc, etc. I guarantee you, if you had seen me perform those same routines live at a party or restaurant, the reactions would have been vastly different than they were with 4 strangers in front of a camera at 8 in the morning...

I've met Paul Wilson at a convention once, but other than that, he wouldn't know me from Adam. While he is not my favorite performer in the world, I saw his lecture and thought it was outstanding. I saw him do a few tricks for laymen in the bar, and they were blown away.

Some people like guys like David Williamson, Bill Malone, Jay Sankey. Some like guys like Larry Jennings, Earl Nelson, and Paul Wilson. Just because an audience doesn't laugh hysterically doesn't mean the performer isn't doing VERY strong magic. Earl Nelson is more laid back than Paul, and I've seen an audience of laymen in pure stunned silence at his performance.

Double J and tntjr, I think you've made your point. Many times. You don't care for Paul's performance on these vids. OK, Paul Wilson is not for you. I'll buy the DVDs off you at full retail if you'll promise to quit slamming the guy now.

There is a difference between criticizing a product on its merits and personal attacks on a person's character and integrity. The way I see it, both of you guys have moved from the former and are now doing the latter. I have to wonder if you would be saying these things in a face-to-face meeting with Paul. Maybe you would, I don't know, as I have never met either of you to the best of my knowledge.

At any rate, you've made your points.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3108 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 19:33, Steven Youell wrote:
These are two different things. One can prefer not to deviate from the script and still adapt to the audience when things happen. I believe that being able to adapt to deviations IS part of showmanship or presentational ability.


It's a part of it, and its importance is related to the amount of interaction that there is with the audience, but it doesn't represent the sum total of it. There are plenty of magicians who can perform without any audience interaction at all.

Quote:
And although I've never familiarized myself with Mr. Wonder's work, I'll be he could adapt to such deviations.


Well, you might want to get cracking, then. He was very specific about strategies used to limit the amount of variables thrown at him from the audience. He was also a great showman.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Cain
View Profile
Inner circle
Los Angeles, CA
1513 Posts

Profile of Cain
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 19:22, Steven Youell wrote:
I wonder how many people in this thread who have passed judgement on Mr. Wilson have produced a magic video of any kind under studio conditions? How many have worked in front of an audience while everyone knows they're part of a production team?

Very few, I'd bet.


How is this remotely relevant? Because someone's never produced a magic video under studio conditions, he's in no position to judge what's funny? That's silly. You might have an argument if the critic is offering advice on how to have an L&L audience rolling on the floor, but judging is another matter entirely. What if someone says David Regal's L&L videos are funny? Is such a claim legitimately reserved only for those who have performed for a studio audience?

I don't see what the big deal is. Some people say Wilson is entertaining, and others disagree. Charitable people should consider your comment that how one performs in an artificial environment is not representative of one's abilities.
Ellusionst discussing the Arcane Playing cards: "Michaelangelo took four years to create the Sistine Chapel masterpiece... these took five."

Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes: "You know Einstein got bad grades as a kid? Well, mine are even worse!"
motown
View Profile
Inner circle
Atlanta by way of Detroit
5968 Posts

Profile of motown
These DVDs are excellent. One of my favorite sets. Paul does a great job of presenting and explaining his work.

As far as the L&L audience goes, there's only a few people who really bother me.
My favorite is Rhat Frank guy, no matter how many videos he's been in he still seems pretty genuine.
"If you ever write anything about me after I'm gone, I will come back and haunt you."
– Karl Germain
Double J
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of Double J
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 20:04, Scott F. Guinn wrote:
I, for one, HAVE put out a DVD, and I can vouch for the truth of Steve's comments above.

A guy just can't win...

Right before my DVD came out, TONS of people were griping and moaning about the "overblown" "exaggerated" and "phony" reactions of the L&L studio audiences. At that time, it was the single biggest complaint people had about magic DVDs.

So I did my shoot with four people around a dining room table. Guess what the single biggest complaint about my DVD was?

"The audience seemed very reserved" "The spectators just didn't seem into the performance", etc, etc. I guarantee you, if you had seen me perform those same routines live at a party or restaurant, the reactions would have been vastly different than they were with 4 strangers in front of a camera at 8 in the morning...

I've met Paul Wilson at a convention once, but other than that, he wouldn't know me from Adam. While he is not my favorite performer in the world, I saw his lecture and thought it was outstanding. I saw him do a few tricks for laymen in the bar, and they were blown away.

Some people like guys like David Williamson, Bill Malone, Jay Sankey. Some like guys like Larry Jennings, Earl Nelson, and Paul Wilson. Just because an audience doesn't laugh hysterically doesn't mean the performer isn't doing VERY strong magic. Earl Nelson is more laid back than Paul, and I've seen an audience of laymen in pure stunned silence at his performance.

Double J and tntjr, I think you've made your point. Many times. You don't care for Paul's performance on these vids. OK, Paul Wilson is not for you. I'll buy the DVDs off you at full retail if you'll promise to quit slamming the guy now.

There is a difference between criticizing a product on its merits and personal attacks on a person's character and integrity. The way I see it, both of you guys have moved from the former and are now doing the latter. I have to wonder if you would be saying these things in a face-to-face meeting with Paul. Maybe you would, I don't know, as I have never met either of you to the best of my knowledge.

At any rate, you've made your points.



No, I guess I haven't made my point since you obviously didn't get it. You skipped right by it just like a few others here who only read into it what they want. When someone makes a comment towards me, I will retort.

One of my original posts was to the fact that I like to watch dvd's for entertainment and performances first. And I gave an assessment of what I thought of the performances on these dvd's. Truthful to how I feel.

The 'integral' element is how Wilson made ME feel while watching him perform. As for the spectators, It really doesn't matter to me how they reacted, I was only making an observation.

You should think twice next time you post. I never made a personal attack on his character. I don't know the guy and never met him. One of my posts read that "I'm not questioning his personal being, in fact, He's probably a fine person".

That's the problem. You, along with others, put words in people's mouths.

Simon Aronson is not my favorite magician, but at least it's apparent that he makes the 'effort' to entertain.

Steven, I never judged how good he is at sleight of hand. Don't know where you got that. Of course, more words....

Again, I only gave 'MY' assessment of what 'I' thought of the performance on this dvd. No more, No less. And if I ever saw him, I would be more than happy to point these things out.
Scott F. Guinn
View Profile
Inner circle
"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
6584 Posts

Profile of Scott F. Guinn
Yes, and you've done so SEVERAL times! I DO get it! I was making a reply to Steven's post, if you will reread mine, and then made a statement that you had made your point--SEVERAL times. We get it--you think Paul is arrogant, unfunny, and not very entertaining. Does that bout sum it up? You expected him to be more likable, funnier, and "sizzle" more, yeah? You've stated your opinion. You don't have to keep stating it.

I helped establish the rules, policies and etiquette of The Magic Café. I was the owner's right hand man, in charge of day-to-day operations. I am fairly certain I understand how to go about making a post on The Magic Café.

There is a difference between saying, "I didn't care for this product" and saying, "This guy is arrogant and doesn't care what his audiences like or think." You may not have used those exact words, but you said something to that effect. That IS, in fact, you "reading" what you perceive to be someone else's character and motives to be--something you cannot possibly know from a video performance of magic. That is, in fact, a slam on the man, and not on the product.
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
Steven Youell
View Profile
V.I.P.
3866 Posts

Profile of Steven Youell
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 20:22, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
It's a part of it, and its importance is related to the amount of interaction that there is with the audience, but it doesn't represent the sum total of it. There are plenty of magicians who can perform without any audience interaction at all.


Yes-- they're called Illusionists. Seriously, I think we differ here because I was speaking specifically about Close Up Magic and you may have been speaking in more general terms. For me, the entire concept of Close Up Magic hinges on interaction with the audience. I've seen more than a few guys attempt Close Up with no audience interaction (silent acts, etc) and although there were a few exceptions, all of them fell flat.

I don't think I'm in the minority here when I say that Close Up Magic was designed (or founded upon) audience interaction.

Quote:
And although I've never familiarized myself with Mr. Wonder's work, I'll be he could adapt to such deviations.


Quote:
On 2010-01-26 20:22, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
Well, you might want to get cracking, then. He was very specific about strategies used to limit the amount of variables thrown at him from the audience. He was also a great showman.

No thanks-- and now that I've heard of his strategy from you I'll avoid his work like the plague. It's not for me.

SEY
Double J
View Profile
Veteran user
331 Posts

Profile of Double J
Scott

There are many other adjectives used, from other people in this thread, for his performance style. Some good, some bad. That's just the way it is. My comments are based on what I saw from this particular video series. Agree or disagree, it doesn't matter, I'm not here to convince you.

I see what I see and I stand by it.

Was this post sweet enough for you?

Nothing more to say.
Scott F. Guinn
View Profile
Inner circle
"Great Scott!" aka "Palms of Putty" & "Poof Daddy G"
6584 Posts

Profile of Scott F. Guinn
OK
"Love God, laugh more, spend more time with the ones you love, play with children, do good to those in need, and eat more ice cream. There is more to life than magic tricks." - Scott F. Guinn
My Lybrary Page
The Burnaby Kid
View Profile
Inner circle
St. John's, Canada
3108 Posts

Profile of The Burnaby Kid
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 23:50, Steven Youell wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-01-26 20:22, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
It's a part of it, and its importance is related to the amount of interaction that there is with the audience, but it doesn't represent the sum total of it. There are plenty of magicians who can perform without any audience interaction at all.


Yes-- they're called Illusionists. Seriously, I think we differ here because I was speaking specifically about Close Up Magic and you may have been speaking in more general terms. For me, the entire concept of Close Up Magic hinges on interaction with the audience. I've seen more than a few guys attempt Close Up with no audience interaction (silent acts, etc) and although there were a few exceptions, all of them fell flat.

I don't think I'm in the minority here when I say that Close Up Magic was designed (or founded upon) audience interaction.


We're not just talking about stage illusionists. We also have the manipulators (stage and close-up), the story-telling magicians, guys like David Roth, Gary Ouellet, Eugene Burger, some buskers I've known... It's possible to be a good showman and remain consistent to the point that the crowd is adapting to you, rather than the other way around. You don't even need to have a forceful personality -- for guys like Al Schneider, it's not even vital to play the showman, since he's happy to just sit there and let the magic speak for itself.

Quote:
No thanks-- and now that I've heard of his strategy from you I'll avoid his work like the plague. It's not for me.


Okey-doke. It seems odd to me that somebody would willingly avoid one of the greatest performers, inventors and magic theorists of the 20th century due to an arbitrary difference of style, but that's your prerogative.

Anyhow, getting back to the main point I was trying to make earlier, I think R Paul Wilson would have no trouble playing off a less passive crowd. In my mind, though, that particular audience in the L&L studio had the feel of one waiting to be overwhelmed, rather than jump in and mix it up.
A screed for scams, sorcery, and other shenanigans... Nu Way Magick Blogge

JACK, the Jolly Almanac of Card Knavery, a free card magic resource for beginners.
Steven Youell
View Profile
V.I.P.
3866 Posts

Profile of Steven Youell
Quote:
On 2010-01-27 00:09, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
We're not just talking about stage illusionists. We also have the manipulators (stage and close-up), the story-telling magicians, guys like David Roth, Gary Ouellet, Eugene Burger, some buskers I've known... It's possible to be a good showman and remain consistent to the point that the crowd is adapting to you, rather than the other way around. You don't even need to have a forceful personality -- for guys like Al Schneider, it's not even vital to play the showman, since he's happy to just sit there and let the magic speak for itself.

I've known one or two of the performers you listed above and I have a different perspective on them-- so let's just say we disagree. I'm sure you'll be OK with that.


Quote:
On 2010-01-27 00:09, Andrew Musgrave wrote:
It seems odd to me that somebody would willingly avoid one of the greatest performers, inventors and magic theorists of the 20th century due to an arbitrary difference of style, but that's your prerogative.

Seems odd to me that you don't understand that "greatest performers, inventors and magic theorists" is a subjective judgment and therefore you find opinions that differ from yours "odd". So again, let's just say we disagree.

SEY
The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Dvd, Video tape, Audio tape & Compact discs. » » R. Paul Wilson (Extreme Possibilities) DVD (0 Likes)
 Go to page [Previous]  1~2~3~4~5~6 [Next]
X
[ Top of Page ]
All content & postings Copyright © 2001-2021 Steve Brooks. All Rights Reserved.
This page was created in 0.24 seconds requiring 5 database queries.
The views and comments expressed on The Magic Café
are not necessarily those of The Magic Café, Steve Brooks, or Steve Brooks Magic.
> Privacy Statement <

ROTFL Billions and billions served! ROTFL