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trickychaz
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I have been thinking of various ways to keep in contact without much sales wrapped up into it. Has anyone tried this?

Mail a letter to your clients that has a mind reading trick tied in. The prediction is covered with your business card, and when they flip it up...it reveals the your card information and also the prediction. If for some reason the trick doesn't work "wrong calcuations etc" I include a P.S. that says if the trick didn't work...I didn't invent it.

Anyone have any suggestions? I am trying to inject a little personality and creativity into my stuff. I wrote the letter myself and didn't obtain the idea from any marketing course for the purpse that I wanted it to sound like it was from me!

Thanks
Charles

Posted: Feb 1, 2010 12:00am
Oh and sorry for the exclamation points Danny Doyle. I am trying my best to adhere to your phobia.
Dannydoyle
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Are you just trolling for someone to attack you? I mean ok we all had to read the self serving tripe about "getting it straight", where you contend you didn't do a bunch of things you really did even though those threads are deleted.

Why then do you want to go along and start nonsense like this when it can end in nothing but a stupid flame war for no reason? I am pretty sure when you wrote that on some level it must have passed for "wit" in your mind, but in reality you only got about 1/2 way there.

If you want to use a whole bunch too many exclimation points when you write, then go ahead. If you think that makes people take you seriously as either a performer or marketer, that may be up for debate. No need to drag my name into your nonsense. I do not work your little corner of what you seem to think is show busienss. I am sure your work will be heralded by future generations in both story and song. I am sure by the end of your lifetime exclimation points will be at the end of every sentence replacing the common period.

Are we done now? Leave my name out of your little bits of psychbabble.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Majestic12
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 01:22, Dannydoyle wrote:
Are you just trolling for someone to attack you? I mean ok we all had to read the self serving tripe about "getting it straight", where you contend you didn't do a bunch of things you really did even though those threads are deleted.

Why then do you want to go along and start nonsense like this when it can end in nothing but a stupid flame war for no reason? I am pretty sure when you wrote that on some level it must have passed for "wit" in your mind, but in reality you only got about 1/2 way there.

If you want to use a whole bunch too many exclimation points when you write, then go ahead. If you think that makes people take you seriously as either a performer or marketer, that may be up for debate. No need to drag my name into your nonsense. I do not work your little corner of what you seem to think is show busienss. I am sure your work will be heralded by future generations in both story and song. I am sure by the end of your lifetime exclimation points will be at the end of every sentence replacing the common period.

Are we done now? Leave my name out of your little bits of psychbabble.


Hi Danny!
Donald Dunphy
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Charles -

Some of the things you can send to past customers include handwritten notes (notecards), small gifts (Invisible Magic Dust, Two Card Monte, lottery tickets, gift cards, etc.), teach-a-trick items, samples of BOR items, newsletters, etc.

Some might be more effective in building the relationship than others.

You are right, in that everything shouldn't be "sell, sell, sell", if you are going to keep in contact with them frequently.

- Donald

P.S. Note - I put lottery tickets on the list above, but I don't use them personally.
Donald Dunphy is a Victoria Magician, British Columbia, Canada.
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 06:16, Majestic12 wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-01 01:22, Dannydoyle wrote:
Are you just trolling for someone to attack you? I mean ok we all had to read the self serving tripe about "getting it straight", where you contend you didn't do a bunch of things you really did even though those threads are deleted.

Why then do you want to go along and start nonsense like this when it can end in nothing but a stupid flame war for no reason? I am pretty sure when you wrote that on some level it must have passed for "wit" in your mind, but in reality you only got about 1/2 way there.

If you want to use a whole bunch too many exclimation points when you write, then go ahead. If you think that makes people take you seriously as either a performer or marketer, that may be up for debate. No need to drag my name into your nonsense. I do not work your little corner of what you seem to think is show busienss. I am sure your work will be heralded by future generations in both story and song. I am sure by the end of your lifetime exclimation points will be at the end of every sentence replacing the common period.

Are we done now? Leave my name out of your little bits of psychbabble.


Hi Danny!


Hi! Was that over the top? I can never tell. We get a whole thread dedicated to the whine from him, then this LOL. I just thought it was ironic.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
Mindpro
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I'm still not convinced he truly understand the difference in Features vs. Benefits yet either. I admire your enthusiasm, as it's quite clear you have been reading several courses, books or seminars on marketing, but what's coming from you seems to be a bunch of overloaded thoughts, combined with your enthusiasm to "jump right in and make the biggest splash you can." First I hope you show is ready for the "grand efforts" you want to jump into as far as your marketing.

The thing that is very bothersome to me is on many of these threads your tone and attitude comes off as authoritive or as an "expert" when it's quite obvious you are still young, learning and recently just discovering much of this information yourself. You seem to be repeating the latest "good idea' you just read or discovered in a course or seminar. Again I applaud your enthusiasm but slow down and let personal, professional and business maturity happen. In one post you are trying to come off as an authority, and the next thread you are asking for ideas, many which are quite basic, while also being available with the search function.

Many people here find such conflicting sentiments very off-putting. I only am voicing this as you seem to put something out there and then when some of the pros here chime in (ultimately to help you) you seem to be taking offense or setting yourself up for ridicule, or not understanding some of their responses.

We are all always learning, and we do wish you well, I just feel you can get much more out of your efforts here with a bit more of a subtle, learning approach. As one of my great mentors said (over and over again) "you can't be learning much when you are doing so much talking!"
ScottRSullivan
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Regarding the Features/Benefits concept will help you in a more general way. Sure you can get by without worrying about it, but once you "get" the concept, it will change the dialogue you have with prospects.

I see the difference between the two as follows (so take it as just one guy's opinion... not a self proclaimed expert advice):

Features are things you can touch or see.
Made up example: This computer has a 4.5 Thz processor with Open GQ built in and 10.1 Googabyte sized hard drive

Benefits are the the resulting consequences of the features.
Rewritten sentence from above: This computer is blazing fast so you don't have to wait for your web pages to download and has enormous storage space so you can never worry about running out of room for your family photos.


P.S.
Mindpro, regarding the courses, I'm with ya a hundred percent.
Feature: These courses say a lot of stuff that are re-iterated from other sources
Benefit: The guys selling them make money
(I mean that in the nicest way and tongue firmly planted in cheek since the course authors contribute a TON of great stuff here on the forums when they don't have to and I think they are great guys.)
Jay Mahon
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We can make it simpler than that.

What is it?
Why do I care?


J
seadog93
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 13:28, Mindpro wrote:
I'm still not convinced he truly understand the difference in Features vs. Benefits yet either. I admire your enthusiasm, as it's quite clear you have been reading several courses, books or seminars on marketing, but what's coming from you seems to be a bunch of overloaded thoughts, combined with your enthusiasm to "jump right in and make the biggest splash you can." First I hope you show is ready for the "grand efforts" you want to jump into as far as your marketing.

The thing that is very bothersome to me is on many of these threads your tone and attitude comes off as authoritive or as an "expert" when it's quite obvious you are still young, learning and recently just discovering much of this information yourself. You seem to be repeating the latest "good idea' you just read or discovered in a course or seminar. Again I applaud your enthusiasm but slow down and let personal, professional and business maturity happen. In one post you are trying to come off as an authority, and the next thread you are asking for ideas, many which are quite basic, while also being available with the search function.

Many people here find such conflicting sentiments very off-putting. I only am voicing this as you seem to put something out there and then when some of the pros here chime in (ultimately to help you) you seem to be taking offense or setting yourself up for ridicule, or not understanding some of their responses.

We are all always learning, and we do wish you well, I just feel you can get much more out of your efforts here with a bit more of a subtle, learning approach. As one of my great mentors said (over and over again) "you can't be learning much when you are doing so much talking!"


That's pretty much exactly how I feel about a lot of the posts.
"Love is the magician who pulls man out of his own hat" - Ben Hecht

"Love says 'I am everything.' Wisdom says 'I am nothing'. Between the two, my life flows." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

Seadog=C-Dawg=C.ou.rtn.ey Kol.b
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 13:28, Mindpro wrote:
I'm still not convinced he truly understand the difference in Features vs. Benefits yet either. I admire your enthusiasm, as it's quite clear you have been reading several courses, books or seminars on marketing, but what's coming from you seems to be a bunch of overloaded thoughts, combined with your enthusiasm to "jump right in and make the biggest splash you can." First I hope you show is ready for the "grand efforts" you want to jump into as far as your marketing.

The thing that is very bothersome to me is on many of these threads your tone and attitude comes off as authoritive or as an "expert" when it's quite obvious you are still young, learning and recently just discovering much of this information yourself. You seem to be repeating the latest "good idea' you just read or discovered in a course or seminar. Again I applaud your enthusiasm but slow down and let personal, professional and business maturity happen. In one post you are trying to come off as an authority, and the next thread you are asking for ideas, many which are quite basic, while also being available with the search function.

Many people here find such conflicting sentiments very off-putting. I only am voicing this as you seem to put something out there and then when some of the pros here chime in (ultimately to help you) you seem to be taking offense or setting yourself up for ridicule, or not understanding some of their responses.

We are all always learning, and we do wish you well, I just feel you can get much more out of your efforts here with a bit more of a subtle, learning approach. As one of my great mentors said (over and over again) "you can't be learning much when you are doing so much talking!"


What I am doing is not becomming an expert..I am giving back to the community with helpful tips/suggestions. You don't have to read them if you wish not to. The techniques I put to use do work and have worked for me, and Yes, I am still learning and will always be learning. Whats wrong with sharing a little advice or contributing?

As for my show...yes, I realize the importance of doing a fantastic job! Any other expert "obivous" marketing advice you would like to provide me with? If so, can we contribute to the thread topic? If you don't like me, then don't waste your time running through my post.
Dannydoyle
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And so goes some pretty good advice right in one ear and out the other.

They were trying to help you sir. Nothing more. Actually trying to "help" you. (just like the slogan at the top says) I am sorry that you choose to take it the way that you do, but often the best advice we ever get is not the most easy to listen too.

I wish you the best in your quest.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 01:22, Dannydoyle wrote:
Are you just trolling for someone to attack you? I mean ok we all had to read the self serving tripe about "getting it straight", where you contend you didn't do a bunch of things you really did even though those threads are deleted.

Why then do you want to go along and start nonsense like this when it can end in nothing but a stupid flame war for no reason? I am pretty sure when you wrote that on some level it must have passed for "wit" in your mind, but in reality you only got about 1/2 way there.

If you want to use a whole bunch too many exclimation points when you write, then go ahead. If you think that makes people take you seriously as either a performer or marketer, that may be up for debate. No need to drag my name into your nonsense. I do not work your little corner of what you seem to think is show busienss. I am sure your work will be heralded by future generations in both story and song. I am sure by the end of your lifetime exclimation points will be at the end of every sentence replacing the common period.

Are we done now? Leave my name out of your little bits of psychbabble.


It was a joke Danny...who is the one that is hot under the collar now? Laugh it off, and when your done maybe contribute to the subject of the thread. When you wake up in bed, make sure that you don't roll over to the right..tends to kink the neck and makes you want to rain on everyone else's day. I am free to help others as well as ask for advice.

Quote:
On 2010-02-01 11:04, Donald Dunphy wrote:
Charles -

Some of the things you can send to past customers include handwritten notes (notecards), small gifts (Invisible Magic Dust, Two Card Monte, lottery tickets, gift cards, etc.), teach-a-trick items, samples of BOR items, newsletters, etc.

Some might be more effective in building the relationship than others.

You are right, in that everything shouldn't be "sell, sell, sell", if you are going to keep in contact with them frequently.

- Donald

P.S. Note - I put lottery tickets on the list above, but I don't use them personally.


Thanks Donald! You're the man! I put this together to send out to my clients that booked back in October....just a gentle reminder without trying to make it sound pushy.
Dannydoyle
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A joke? Wow it was practically funny. Jokes usually have a bit more humor in them as part of the dealio. Thank you for telling me. That was as not funny as most of the things you post. (well not intentionally funny mind you. Much of what you post is hilarious, but not because you want it to be)

What side of the bed is it that gives one delusions?

Advise, ask for advice, do whatever you like just please when I do not post on your sill threads all I ask is you not reference me. I hope that was polite enough for you.

Posted: Feb 1, 2010 7:15pm
OH wait wait wait. Re reading your first post, you think it is a good marketing ploy as a MAGICIAN to include a trick that MAY NOT WORK!? Wow where do I start with this idea? Oh then a PS that everyone gets that if the trick didn't work you didn't invent it as a disclaimer.

Well I was wrong you must have a sense of humor if you put that up because it really made me laugh.

Here is some marketing advice, if you are a magician you need to get tricks right. If you are sending a mailer, you do not want to prove to them you are inept. That something they should discover all by themself. There are HUNDREDS of things you can send which are simply 100% sure fire, no need to get one wrong. You want to make certain they do not think you are inept. (I am assuming you are not by the way)

I would also like to mention that it IS possible to keep in too much touch with clients. I know all the systems seem to think that constant contact is good, but I tell you it can be too much depending on who you are sending things to. I know they all tell you to put personal stuff in mailings and such, but if you get enough of them a week from enough people, it s boorish. It may work for some clients, but for others it can be quite off putting.

I had a performer send me an email "update" about where he was and what he was doing from a PLACE I HAD SENT HIM. Thus telling me I am nothing more to him but a name on a mailing list. I do not think this was the message he sent, but it was darn sure the message I got.

I think it is a good technique to keep in touch with clients, but it needs to be monitered carefuly.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:15, Dannydoyle wrote:

I had a performer send me an email "update" about where he was and what he was doing from a PLACE I HAD SENT HIM. Thus telling me I am nothing more to him but a name on a mailing list. I do not think this was the message he sent, but it was darn sure the message I got.



Maybe you looked at his mailing from the wrong perspecitive. In the end result, we are all just a name on a mailing list, but what we are handed can make all the difference. Wouldn't you like to receive a post card from your magician that says

"Hey John, I know you are very busy in the office, and I thought these magic tricks would be a great break from your busy workday!"..sincerely, XXXXX"

I just made that up for the point, so please don't tear it apart and analize every little nook and cranny. The point is..your customers are not always thinking about you as much as you may like to think they are....You have to keep your name in the top of their minds and do it in a descret way...offer something interesting, cool or different. When they need you, they will call you over the competitors.

P.S. I am not claiming the above to be expert advice, and there is probally more that could be added! Please feel free to add something worhty if you wish..I will listen and maybe even apply.
Mindpro
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After reading some of his previous posts, this thread, and now the "Networking" thread, I'm beginning to see the bigger picture...the spawning of a new marketing infoprenuer in the making. How long until a subscription e-mail newsletter, report(s) or course? I hope the info gets better as all I've read so far is the very elementary basics of Marketing 101.
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:39, Mindpro wrote:
After reading some of his previous posts, this thread, and now the "Networking" thread, I'm beginning to see the bigger picture...the spawning of a new marketing infoprenuer in the making. How long until a subscription e-mail newsletter, report(s) or course? I hope the info gets better as all I've read so far is the very elementary basics of Marketing 101.


Marketing is a passion of mine, and I do have plans to pursue it in the future. Thanks for noticing, but I am just sharing to share...have nothing to sell, no e-mail newsletter to sign up for etc. If you don't like my so called "rehashed" info then why read it?

Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:39, Mindpro wrote:
After reading some of his previous posts, this thread, and now the "Networking" thread, I'm beginning to see the bigger picture...the spawning of a new marketing infoprenuer in the making. How long until a subscription e-mail newsletter, report(s) or course? I hope the info gets better as all I've read so far is the very elementary basics of Marketing 101.

As an educator and entertainer...isn't what you teach just rehased but thrown at a new audience or is everything you teach "NEW AND INNOVATIVE"?

Posted: Feb 1, 2010 7:55pm
I do believe in the power of writing great copy and touching on a mix of features and benefits, but mostly benefits. I like it when customers call me, because I can immediately listen and then adhere to their needs. Creative Copy has to be done tactifully. I don't like stuff like this; "don't risk dissapointing your child" etc. I think that sets the wrong tone for your marketing message and will limit your success.

P.S. I am not claiming to be an expert, and the above is only opinion. Feel free to tear apart at your own will.

Charles

Posted: Feb 1, 2010 7:58pm
These "rehashed techniques" that I have learned from experience and other marketers has allowed me to live freely since November and practice my act, grow my act etc. For those who have marketing courses out there...I sincerely want to say Thank You!
Dannydoyle
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Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:36, trickychaz wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:15, Dannydoyle wrote:

I had a performer send me an email "update" about where he was and what he was doing from a PLACE I HAD SENT HIM. Thus telling me I am nothing more to him but a name on a mailing list. I do not think this was the message he sent, but it was darn sure the message I got.



Maybe you looked at his mailing from the wrong perspecitive. In the end result, we are all just a name on a mailing list, but what we are handed can make all the difference. Wouldn't you like to receive a post card from your magician that says

"Hey John, I know you are very busy in the office, and I thought these magic tricks would be a great break from your busy workday!"..sincerely, XXXXX"

I just made that up for the point, so please don't tear it apart and analize every little nook and cranny. The point is..your customers are not always thinking about you as much as you may like to think they are....You have to keep your name in the top of their minds and do it in a descret way...offer something interesting, cool or different. When they need you, they will call you over the competitors.

P.S. I am not claiming the above to be expert advice, and there is probally more that could be added! Please feel free to add something worhty if you wish..I will listen and maybe even apply.


The very idea of YOU deciding if it is "worthy" made me laugh again. Thank you.

As I said the idea of showing them you are inept in a mailing is just the wrong move.

But lets talk about "Maybe I read it from the wrong perspective". As a person who holds marketing as such a passion, and someone who wants to be a guru in the future, you should know that as the client MY perspective is the only one that should matter. The words "you read it from the wrong perspective" should not be in your vocabulary as a future marketing guru.

And NO I do not want to receive that sort of post card. I am too busy to be the but of a marketing campaign just because the guy read the newest "system" from whoever. If they do a good enough job when I use them, then they will be used again. This is simple. Maybe not so on the level you are at, but really it is simple. Do the job well enough that they remember you, and they will call you when they need you.

When we get promo in the mail, it is a fun game to try to be the first to figure out which "guru" the person read of late. It is pretty easy and sort of funny. It really is annoying to be the target of this sort of thing. Once it is obvious you are no more than a mailing list, a target or whatever, that is not the best way to keep yourself in the "top of their mind". You can make yourself a joke, an antecdote told among clients or agents. I know you say "without being pushy" but in reality, people may not be as dumb as you think. And may not see things from the right "perspective". There are 2 parts to communication. First is what you say, but the most important part is what they hear. In reading your posts, you have the first one down pat. The second one, not so much.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
trickychaz
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Quote:
On 2010-02-02 00:41, Dannydoyle wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:36, trickychaz wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-01 19:15, Dannydoyle wrote:

I had a performer send me an email "update" about where he was and what he was doing from a PLACE I HAD SENT HIM. Thus telling me I am nothing more to him but a name on a mailing list. I do not think this was the message he sent, but it was darn sure the message I got.



Maybe you looked at his mailing from the wrong perspecitive. In the end result, we are all just a name on a mailing list, but what we are handed can make all the difference. Wouldn't you like to receive a post card from your magician that says

"Hey John, I know you are very busy in the office, and I thought these magic tricks would be a great break from your busy workday!"..sincerely, XXXXX"

I just made that up for the point, so please don't tear it apart and analize every little nook and cranny. The point is..your customers are not always thinking about you as much as you may like to think they are....You have to keep your name in the top of their minds and do it in a descret way...offer something interesting, cool or different. When they need you, they will call you over the competitors.

P.S. I am not claiming the above to be expert advice, and there is probally more that could be added! Please feel free to add something worhty if you wish..I will listen and maybe even apply.


The very idea of YOU deciding if it is "worthy" made me laugh again. Thank you.

As I said the idea of showing them you are inept in a mailing is just the wrong move.

But lets talk about "Maybe I read it from the wrong perspective". As a person who holds marketing as such a passion, and someone who wants to be a guru in the future, you should know that as the client MY perspective is the only one that should matter. The words "you read it from the wrong perspective" should not be in your vocabulary as a future marketing guru.

And NO I do not want to receive that sort of post card. I am too busy to be the but of a marketing campaign just because the guy read the newest "system" from whoever. If they do a good enough job when I use them, then they will be used again. This is simple. Maybe not so on the level you are at, but really it is simple. Do the job well enough that they remember you, and they will call you when they need you.

When we get promo in the mail, it is a fun game to try to be the first to figure out which "guru" the person read of late. It is pretty easy and sort of funny. It really is annoying to be the target of this sort of thing. Once it is obvious you are no more than a mailing list, a target or whatever, that is not the best way to keep yourself in the "top of their mind". You can make yourself a joke, an antecdote told among clients or agents. I know you say "without being pushy" but in reality, people may not be as dumb as you think. And may not see things from the right "perspective". There are 2 parts to communication. First is what you say, but the most important part is what they hear. In reading your posts, you have the first one down pat. The second one, not so much.


The guy thought of you enough to at least send you something! I can understand how some people wouldn't be happy with "just that" Very few in my book, but I have seen this work first hand.

I keep in contact with my customers and many are looking into having me for the 3rd year in a row. It's all in response to me "keeping in contact" I visited my client in person, and she had many of my mailings from months ago dead smack on her desk. I don't need you to tell me if it works, my clients do a good job of that. I can't stress enough on keeping in contact with your past customers. The lifetime value of a customer is priceless, and if you don't send them anything "out of fear that they wont appreciate it" chances are they will not call you for next year.

You should count your blessings that you are even on the guys mailing list. I will agree that it can be overdone, but only if you constantly keep pushing them to buy.

Speaking from the shoe on the other foot...I ran some ads with our local paper, and then constantly get sales calls from them...they don't have a care in the world other than to tell me about the new placement that would be great for me....that type of marketing is what makes me mad.

Doing the following is OK in my book

1. periodic emails
2. phone call to say hello and speak about working with them again
3. newsletter with useful content
4. invite to upcomming event
5. gift certificates
6. Christmas Card
7. Birthday Card
8. Post Card Reminder with free trick
etc

I am not sure I understand your perspective on this issue, and frankly..I don't care b/c I know it works b/c I rely on it
Dannydoyle
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I should count myself lucky to be on his list?

Wow I am done.
Danny Doyle
<BR>Semper Occultus
<BR>In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act....George Orwell
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