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Kondini
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A mate toured with the "Ben Nagel" Hell Riders Wall of Death see http://www.americanhellriders.com Before any further comment regarding this show does anyone know of or about the set up ?

The second question,,,are any of the rides / shows in the US subject to regulation controls ie >> Health & Safety, Stress Tests etc ?

Ken.
Fitz
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You probably saw this already but at this link you will find a few details about the setup. http://www.americanhellriders.com/about.php

Fitz
I have a daily web show all about magic at http://FitzMagic.info
T-RAY
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How did your friend like his time with them?
The Curator of the Unusual
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They were at the IISA (Gibtown Club) "Bike Week"....I watched them set up while I talked to my Buddies who were tearin down the Big Top from the IISA charity Circus....Later that day...they all were in the Club watchin Football...after the Packers got beat in a thriller..I went home...I wanted to see them perform...but never made it back...There setup is aluminum and Wood.....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
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Stephon
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I know Tyler Fyre and Thrill Kill Jill know a Wall of Death team, but I'm not sure if it's these folks.
~Les S. Moore, The Dapper Dipper
Swami Yomahmi and Cheeky Monkey Sideshow

"Comedy is a man in trouble." ~Bill Irwin
Kondini
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Well Ken pulled out early on them as they were completly off their heads. The owner come builder come sponsor of the Wall must have his brains up his @ss, his only interest in anything was $$$$ and he didn`t care how many peoples lives he put on the line to make them.

1) The wall was only 20ft across.

2) Made out of the wrong timber.

3) The sections were not shaped or dove tailed also the cross spars to each section were free hanging.

4) The run up sections (Which take you up onto the wall) Were slatted (The wrong way) Gaps with daylight showing through !

5) The shape of the wall was not round,,,was compared to a 50p piece shape with about 20 sides.

6) There were no top side sheets (According to them they cost too much) So if it rained (It did) The riders got wet !!! Unbelievable.

7) There should always be movement within the dome, but in this case a sway of 12" !!! Amazing.

8) A USA Wall useing Jap bikes !! He didn`t know about Indians or the reason for their preferance. So guess what,,,the bikes were altered by dropping the suspension down to give a lower centre of gravity,,,hahaha when the riders were on them their knees were up under their chins hahaha what a tw@t.

9) Repairs on the bikes were made inside the wall !! So the track would get covered with oil etc !!! Several of them fell off hahahs and wondered why.

10) With the promise of a decent bunk he found on arrival a box 4ft 6inches by 7ft as his living accomedation, designed so if anyone was useing the shower (Next to kens bed !) He couldn't open the door to his box,,hahaha.

Well theres more but I will not bore you with it here.

Now pray tell,,,are there no registered designs and laws to follow, no inspections, no test certificates, no safety certificates, no ruling body to oversee the fairgrounds, no ADIPS, SURPS, Showmans Guild, Third party Insurance how the hell could that work.

The pics are like a nightmare.

The vids are even better than Mr Bean.

Cant wait for your comments hahaha Or was it all an American Dream ?

Ken who has just wet his Kacks.
Chance
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Wow, Ken, tell us who you REALLY feel! LOL!
The Curator of the Unusual
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I don't see any problem...other than the Propeitor spoils his help!....
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
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Cholly, by golly!
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Just watched those videos...

It all seems so pointless without the lion in the sidecar.
T-RAY
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They do call themselves Hellriders......not Heavenriders.....the guy says that when he went to build one, no one would tell him how.....so he just did it. Sounds like he'll have to figure it out as he goes. I like that this show exists though. As you know, "safety" comes first, but "making money" battles for that position all the time. Did your friend get hurt???
Kondini
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No he didn't get hurt but two of the others did and have since left. Regards money, with the huge numbers expected they never ran black at all and on many occassions there were more in the pit than the balcony.

He saw a picture in a mag of a wall, took measurements from this pic and went to work making one !!!

Where would the speckies stand if any of them got hurt ? How could such a Heath Robinson set up get Insurance ?

The Walls in the UK run black nearly all of the time.

Ken has been on the wall for thirty + years.

Is this a normal way for the showmen of the USA to work ?

To ride a propper wall is like a ride over rough concrete so just try to imagine what it would be like on that abortion.

Ken.
handa
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Amusements/attractions are regulated state-to-state. Lucky me, I get to teach at the seminars in PA. As far as what we have to follow, all amusements operating within our boarders are required to be registered by the state, with trip itineraries filed for each move or on a monthly basis. Attractions are inspected in-house daily (books/logs may be requested by a state-employed rep at any time), and prior to each setup or monthly by a registered and licensed inspector.

The inspector can be an "independent" or somebody trained in-house. Inspectors are required to take classes and a test in relation to their specific area of expertese, and renew every three years by completing a certain number of hours related to their license.

An important part of the process is the filing of appropriate insurance paperwork, including the naming of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania as a protected party within the clause.

As far as specifics regarding demo derbies and the WOD, I do not know what additional requirements exist in PA, but the person who organizes the safety seminars comes from a family of demo derby/motordrome organizers and performers. I'm sure that he knows the other details as his father is only recently retired from the business.

I can tell you in PA, fly-by-night operations and those who do not show appropriate safety precautions and inspection paperwork are not permitted to operate legally. They are pretty aggressive in hunting down non-compliant parties as well.

I can't say how the process works in any other state. Some have less strict licensing/regulation than others. I can only speak in relation to amusement devices that are contracted to work within our own borders.

Chris
Kondini
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Thanx for that Chris.

So I gather that the quality of safety etc can vary from State to State, this would open up the door to the DIY Showman with no recognized levels in place. What a crazy way of inspectorate.

Regards the Insurance angle I guess the same would apply with a shopping around attitude until you got what you wanted,,,crazy.

In some respects I wish it was so lax over here but on the other hand would worry and have an eagle eye out for the punters all the time. Think I would go with a peaceful life myself.

Such a set up over here would never see the light of day,,,even the other operators would shop them,,one bad egg reflects on all and its a tough enough job at the best of times.

Ken.
Cholly, by golly!
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In a lot of states, this type of set-up probably wouldn't be considered an amusement or an attraction.

1. It's not a ride.

2. No roof means it's technically not even a building.

The wall and cycles would be considered props in a show.

Just like a juggler's clubs or a magician's blade box.

As far as I know most states don't inspect props.

Am I way off here?
The Curator of the Unusual
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I believe what Handa is refering to is Rides, and or Circuses...not Individual acts...The Motor Drome is a act..However, a Inspector will inspect the steps, public Veiwing area ect...The Problem with the United States is the Goverment wants to regulate EVERY aspect of our lifes....I fully understand "Public Safety"...If your freind didn't like the Bikes, wall and living conditions, "What the Hell does he need the US goverment for?"...He should of said "Sorry, not what I signed up for!...Done playin!"...End of story...
You come to a point in your life when you really don't care what people think about you, you just care what you think about yourself.
Evel Knievel

contact: curatoroftheunusual@hotmail.com
handa
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This is my understanding as well. Individual acts do not fall under this type of state regulation in PA. Guest-holding structures and mechanical equipment definitely fall under inspection standards in PA.

There are some loopholes that still exist, but I can't see any temporary structure as attention-drawing as a motor drome arena operating without The PA Department of Agriculture (governs amusement concerns due to the number of county/grange fairs) and possibly the Department of Public Works (employee safety issues) wanting to have a say in the safe operation of the structure.

Ken, yes it does vary state-to-state and even municipality-by-municipality. Local fire marshals have immediate authority over any crowd-generating event, and can often be more difficult to deal with than those who work at the State level, depending upon local experience and sentiment.

On a side note, we've worked to be proactive with our governing body, which is why I teach at the safety seminars. We've found that when we've really need friends on that level, they are much more cooperative when they know that you are willing to be proactive with what they feel to be the right thing. It's a pretty cool ego boost when the top person is on the phone with you and says, "Hold on, Chris. I'm typing this in an email to the Governor while we are speaking."
Kondini
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Ken was contacted and asked to guest for a season, all info which could be gained via internet, emails etc was gathered but the guy promised this that and the other and was basicaly a BS liar.

For him to look at the gear and head back home would not have been an option at the time and Ken was prepared to give it a try,,,which he did. The faults were so basic it beggars belief,,are there no other walls in the US, we have around half a dozen which travel and all are governed by the Guild regs.

You only have to look at the site to see what a small wall (Capacity crowds would bring in very low income),, but with a guestimate of 100,000 heads a shot one would have to experience it to understand.

From what I can gather from replies here this is the norm for the US,, I think if a showman with backing took the trouble to visit walls in the UK and Germany he would garner enough knowledge to wipe the floor with any other wall working your side of the pond,,he would clean up completly and retire a rich man.

Money is not the most important thing in the biz if it was I would have got out years ago, but a showman who has no pride in his work will not only kill it for himself but get all in the biz a bad name. Such shows should be burnt out.

Ken.
handa
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Maybe that's why I've never seen a WOD at fairs I've visited, but until scrap metal increased significantly in value, there were Demo Derbies at literally every event with grounds and a grandstand.

I'm fascinated with the images I've seen of the ones on your side of the pond, Ken. It looks like an amazing setup and there's just something cool and nostalgic about the wooden track and the Indian motorcycles.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last statement.

Chris
T-RAY
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Send some links Ken....I would like to see the shows that you are talking about. Thanks!
Kondini
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These from memory so I hope they are correct, apologies if not.

http://www.wall-of-death.co.uk/ Ken Fox wall also shows manufacture !!

http://www.originalwallofdeath.co.uk/walla.htm Again from Foxy, compare with the US one !

Also a brill book by Allen Ford,,, Riding the wall of death,, around £12. Fox used to ride for Allen when Allens wall was on the road, Ken is a really good trick rider. My mate another Ken who this thread was about also road for Allen and now sometimes rides for Ken (Fox),,

All best guys here are called Ken hahaha
As a side note, Ken number two has just delivered a Beetrike for me, custom made, 1300cc VW engine goes like sh@t off a shovel,,,I must get some hair so the wind can blow through it !!

Ken (Westbury Posse).
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