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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts |
Man on man...I have been doing adult functions lately, but I had the birthday party tonight. The kids just tore me apart....it's a very strong show that plays well at other venues, but these kids were brilliant! Lots of shouting out the methods of my tricks from the very start, and it stayed throughout the rest of the show. I can't just cut the show short if the client is paying for an entire 45 minute set.
When the kids start shouting out the methods from the very start...I feel it makes for a very difficult show in which they are constantly trying to figure out the tricks rather than enjoying themselves. What do you do in this situation, or am I at this alone! Is it time that I really bite the bullet and realize that after 10 years part time performer I SUCK? A show similar to this received a standing ovation yesterday. It's very confusing. Here are some of the effects...are they strong enough? 1. professors nightmare 2. 20th century silks 3. silk to egg 4. Cereal Killer 5. Giant B-Wave 6. Vanishing bottle 7. Vanishing water |
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Pizpor Elite user 476 Posts |
Have you read Silly Billies (David Kaye) book? He addresses these sorts of problems very well in his essays. He talks about how you craft a routine to include a beginning, loooong middle, and an end. It's about taking the kids on a journey. I wish you luck, but this is why I don't do kid shows.
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-02-21 21:17, Pizpor wrote: I can handle kids, but I am most happy when doing my stand up briefcase style show for after dinner parties. I always get 4-5 compliments after that show and very good reviews from the clients. I can't make a living in this area and have to accept kids parties etc....don't get me wrong..I don't hate kids, but it's not where I am best at. |
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randyburtis Inner circle 1256 Posts |
Check out little darlings section for general kids advice, but I would say that the method of presentation needs to be different for kids than adults, also, where they shouting out specific methods or just: "i know how that is done". kids will often shout out "i have seen that" or "i know how it is done" even when they are way off...
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts |
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On 2010-02-21 22:20, randyburtis wrote: One kid shouted out the exact method of professors nightmare. 20th century silks a kid said...you just have two of the same silks...silk to egg they said you switched the egg... |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
I think anyone, kids included, during any magic performance are automatically inclined to try to figure out how it's done. Sounds like a crowd control issue.
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts |
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What do you do in this situation, or am I at this alone! Is it time that I really bite the bullet and realize that after 10 years part time performer I SUCK? To be a children’s entertainer you have to put your ego aside. You will not receive any standing ovations. Your only reward will be laughter and smiling faces. They are a challenge for sure, and that’s what I like about them. The fact that you are 'most happy' doing after dinner shows out of a brief case might be telling you something. I believe you will be most successful at what you truly enjoy. But don’t let one bad show get you down. It happens to us all—or at least the ones who are humble enough to admit it. PS I would only question you choice of Giant B-Wave for a children's show. I don't think they get it.
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Chris LaBarge Regular user Upstate New York 134 Posts |
Some important questions to aks yourself:
-How old were the kids? I find that 10+ year olds do not respond well to magic shows unless you are doing close-up cards and coins. You have to respect their intelligence or they will tear you apart. 4-9 year olds like silly showy tricks with unexpected endings. -What's your style/character? If you are trying to be the Mr. Big Time, I'm gonna fool you magician with kids it tends not to work. Kids want entertainment not a magic show. Make them laugh and have a good time. Most of the time you cannot take your adult stand up show to a kids party and expect anywhere near the same response. Kids won't give you ovations or applause much anyway, especially in a living room. I hit the same threshhold when I was about ten years in to doing this part-time, you'll figure it out. |
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Sam Sandler Inner circle 2487 Posts |
I agree th at some of this might be crowd control but more importantly the tricks you described for a kids show well unless you got killer routines for them they wont work.
as pointed out above kids are not adults and the magic you perform is not about tricking kids as much as it is about entertaining them. so if yo uare jsut doing tricks this will be a problem at many of your s hows. now if you can put some routining to gether and make it more entertaining th en you can move forward. point is PRESENTATION is wh ats most important. some one mentioned not to do jumbo Bwave and I would agree if you are in a day care setting wh ere its basically all kids but when I do a Pr ivate party with 20 or so kids and 20 or more parents I like to pull out bwave BUT my presentaion involves the kids and allows me to WOW the parents. the last thing which probably shoudl have been the first thing is what do you do pre show warm up. have you conveyed to the kids what their job is for the show and have dyou made it clear what you will be doing for hte show. do they understand to applaud, laugh, scream, get involved. I will second silly billies book as well as look at some of David ginns dvds as well. keep seeking advice and never give up. magic is not what you buy, it's what you do! sam
sam sandler- America's only full-time DEAF Illusionist
http://www.samsandler.com http://www.deafinitelymagic.com |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
Kids do not appreciate theater the way adults do. Kids are very ego-driven - they are all about the "pecking order", and will do anything they can to "one-up" someone else. If that happens to be an adult, they get extra points!!
Kids as a general rule see more live magic than an adult. Adults also understand when someone is doing a good job at something otherwise common or standard. Kids will take every opportunity to eat you alive because they have no respect for hard work. In their minds, magic is all about the secret, and if they know it and can bust you, then they're better than you. And it's like a shark's feeding frenzy - once they see that one of them got to you, they all want to score on you! So don't use stock presentations and standard methods. My Prof Nightmare routine is about working in a pasghetti factory. Don't present to them like it's a dinner theater - kids are not passive watchers unless you can give them special effects like Avatar! If you're just a regular person, then you're going to be evaluated as competition or fresh meat! Fined a way to interact with them on their level. For kids up to 7 or 8, they love goofy stuff. From about 8 to maybe 14, show them something, then teach them how to do it so they now have something their friends don't. Older than that, you can engage them with adult routines, but do not talk down to them or be "stuffy". Watch some vieos on Jay Sankey's site (sankeymagic.com) - hi stuff goes over well. Ed |
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts |
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On 2010-02-22 10:10, Sam Sandler wrote: I do have a opener that coaches them to applaud. I think crowd control was the BIGGEST of the problem. This doesn't happen often, but this crowd was very challenging. The Giant B-Wave is thrown into the show for the adults. It was a 1 year old birthday party and they mainly wanted the entertainment for the older kids and adults. |
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Ed_Millis Inner circle Yuma, AZ 2292 Posts |
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I do have a opener that coaches them to applaud. I think crowd control was the BIGGEST of the problem. This doesn't happen often, but this crowd was very challenging. The Giant B-Wave is thrown into the show for the adults. It was a 1 year old birthday party and they mainly wanted the entertainment for the older kids and adults. Them's the tough ones! The kids are not there to have a good time with friends - they were drug there by their parents so their parents can party. You're there to keep the kids from being too awful bored - which means they are looking for some excitement and viola! here comes the unsuspecting magician!! At a regular birthday party, they are generally all peers, at least mostly in the same age group, so you can get a fairly consistent reaction with any effect. But when they're all over the map age-wise, it's difficult. I might try to do something that would immediately engage the kids with their parents - like vanishing a silk and telling them it's in some some dad's shoe nd they need to get their dad up here and make him take off his shoes so you can find it. The little ones will love the silliness, the older young'uns will love being able to embarrass their parents, and the young teens will appreciate the novel way you empowered the kids over the parents. *Now* they're on your side! Hopefully the parents laugh, too. Ed |
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kinesis Inner circle Scotland, surrounded by 2708 Posts |
I was a children's entertainer for 17 years. I started at the tender age of 17 and stopped doing children's shows professionally when I was 34. I've had audiences ranging from 1 to several hundred. When you've been left alone with a hundred children in a hall, you have to be in total control and you have to establish that within the first few seconds of your act. Performing for kids is (I think) an instinctive thing. A child can smell fear and will act on it. IMHO, unless you have a true passion, a love for kids, unless you are totally genuine about how you feel when you perform, you're vulnerable to this sort of reaction. Kids have a sixth sense when it comes to magic. Any by-play that's used to 'fill-in' rather than enhance is picked up by children. Children are THE most critical audience you can have. They have no inhibitions, if they're bored, they'll let you know in many different ways. If children's shows aren't where your passion lies - don't do them. The first day I lost that 100% passion was the day I called my agent and told him not to book any more children's shows for me. I moved into close-up for many years and then slowly became interested in mentalism, which is what I perform now.
Derek |
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RebelEntertainer New user John Abrams 73 Posts |
Hey Chaz,
A couple of things. First, certainly always follow your passion. Although that may not be possible right now, and you may HAVE TO do children's shows, focus on what you love and the money will come. Now, as far as your children's show. I LOVE doing children's shows. It's MY PASSION and I have a great time. But here's something I've discovered over the years. Children are getting smarter when it comes to magic methods. With the internet and every birthday mom trying to out-do every other birthday mom, a lot of kids have seen a lot of magic. And once they see it, they can go home, get on line and with a little research, discover the secrets. I read your set list, and the thing is, each trick you're doing has been done a million times by a million other magicians. My guess is most older kids have seen most of those tricks. Now, there's nothing wrong with classics, but I find that you can be much more successful with kids if you do tricks that they are NOT familiar with. OR at least disguise them with routines using THEIR POP CULTURE. I liked the spaghetti idea with Professor's Nightmare. But the truth is, every kid in the world has seen the Nightmare. You don't have to change your entire set. Slowly create new illusions and new routines using everyday household items that kids are familiar with. A Big Mac Box. A paper bag. A lunch pail. School pencils. A giant Spongbob. A big Transformers picture. Etc. You can combo these items with standard magical effects and come up with unique children's presentations that they have never seen. And that nobody in your area (or anywhere for that matter) has ever done. Slowly replace the standards with these and you'll be amazed what kind of response you'll get. Good Luck. You'll do great. -John Abrams Rebel Entertainer and guy that eats Big Macs and watches Spongebob. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Chaz
Most of the tricks you do I wouldn't do on a bet. If you do samo-lamo magic little kids will call you on it. Perhaps if you spent less time on marketing, and more time trying to perfect an act that will fool 8 year olds the marketing will take care of it self. My God Chaz you are a good juggler with an ordinary magic show. MHO
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Mindpro Eternal Order 10604 Posts |
I think Al has touched on something that has been said a million times here on the Café, but is most understood and overlooked among entertainers, especially younger performers. In this day of marketing gurus and information gurus, many think this is where the value and profits occur and is the most important part of the business.
While it's true most performers are terrible businesses men and women, or are creative artists who find the business end of things more difficult, the most often overlooked element, and most of these gurus somewhere will even tell you "of course this is all based on you having a complete, structured, polished and road tested show, which should go without saying..." But what Al said needs to be said, heard and understood more. I still think this (your solid, all-the-bugs- worked-out, time-tested-in-many-actual-live-performances show) is the foundation for which your business is formed. Too many seem to think they can simply string tricks or effects together and create a "show". Or they see effects that they enjoy or have seen another performer do well in the proper context, and think that by adding this into their show will automatically deliver the same results. After all is said and done, it is the plain and simple fact that the single most important element is having the show down first. Nothing else matters if this has not been done properly. Actually it makes everything else harder if it's not done properly as it creates a negative chain of reactions that ultimately creates MORE work when it comes to marketing and the business side of the equation. You will constantly be needing to do extreme continuous marketing to get new clients to keep you afloat because your client satisfaction (not what hey say to your face, but how they actually respond to wanting to hire or book you again) will have you receiving only minimal return bookings or referrals. For example after many years, I now enjoy an 86% book-back rate. The foundation of my business for the last 15 years has been working off of this. While minimally affected by the economy, I still do very well because of this strong rebooking rate. But if you are only receiving a 15%-30% rebooking/referral rate you are having to put much more effort and expense (money) into generating new business each year. The very same holds true for agencies, event planners, etc. None of this is even close to possible without having the show down completely on all levels first...period. I know younger entertainers do not want to hear this and they all want to fast-track themselves onto the same levels as some of the more experienced pros, but it truly isn't possible without the top-rate, blow-them-out-of-their-seats, we-love-this-guy (or girl)-and-have-to-book-them-again-for-our-next-event, polished and perfected show. In my day it was called "paying your dues." My advice: don't worry about your marketing, your web site or fancy or clever business or post cards, worry about one thing and one thing only...your show. Once that is complete without a doubt, where you need it to be, polished and confident, only then should you begin to take the next steps. As I tell my students, the extra time you put in initially will prevent setbacks later, and ultimately allow you to enjoy the right benefits and profits for years to come. |
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trickychaz Special user West Virginia 549 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-02-22 21:19, Mindpro wrote: I agree, but I have been doing these tricks for years. I don't think the major problem is in the line up of tricks...maybe a little, but the majority of the problem lies in the loss of control with the kids from the get go...I had them their attention for the whole show, but they were constantly trying to guess methods. To me it is impossible to entertain a crowd that doesn't want to be entertained. You will be fighting them until the end if they start shouting out methods from the beginning. Quote:
On 2010-02-22 20:03, Al Angello wrote: 20th century silks, silk to egg and professors nightmare are good classics, but I can agree that they are overdone. Vanishing water is always fun for the kids and never gets shouted out...they love it when you put the plate of the cup turn it upside down over the kids head! I threw giant b-wave and Cereal Killer in there for the adults and they do play over well for kids 9 and above too. Vanishing bottle gets different reactions everytime I perform it...usually very poor but I use it as comedy and filler material. The juggling isn't in the show yet, but thanks for the compliment. The show isn't the major problem here...believe me I have used these tricks for years and they played just fine and the audience was entertained. I should add that the kids did enjoy themselves and liked my company and stormed up after the show to ask a quadzillion questions. It seemed they were focused on figuring out the methods rather than just letting loose and enjoying the magic. Quote:
On 2010-02-22 21:19, Mindpro wrote: FYI I am in the "paying the dues" stage now, and not afraid to admit it...even though I do this for a living...I just started in November doing 8-9 shows per month which is in my opinion still "paying dues" IMO... I do have a good persona onstage and seem comfortable in front of an audience...that has been developed over he last few years of doing part time gigs. I was the shy kid in school and performing magic in front of live audience has built a ton of confidence. I will keep working and perfecting and adding new effects but never stop focusing on the marketing. The show isn't the major problem, but can be improved for SURE! Quote:
On 2010-02-22 20:03, Al Angello wrote: Your point is very valid and I am aware that the show is the foundation before marketing. I get rebookings quite often, but I have came to the conclusion that I am going to continue to work on the show and marketing at the same time. I feel my show and persona are up to par to be marketing, but still have room for improvement. |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
I had an OK act 6 years ago when I first joined the magic Café. Since then I have added tricks that I have read about here. There are only 2 tricks left in my act that I did 6 years ago. It has been a gradual improvement for me, and I have a much better show today. I can't tell you what my new tricks are called, because they have no names, and they are all mine. I have done several cub scout banquest so far this year, and my show has gone over very well with the little kids. None of them have called me on my magic.
Your tricks may be classics, but I have another name for them. I would call them "TIRED OLD MAGIC".
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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Ken Northridge Inner circle Atlantic City, NJ 2393 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-02-22 20:03, Al Angello wrote: I agree 100%. A good show is the best marketing tool you can have. Quote:
On 2010-02-23 08:21, Al Angello wrote: I disagree 100%. If you have the creative ability to come up with your own effects I think that is fantastic, but to those who are not talented in this area, there is nothing wrong with doing the classics of magic. There is always a new batch of kids that have never seen them. They aren’t classic to them, they are fun and amazing routines. I am not ashamed to admit that in almost everyone of my shows I perform the Mis-made Flag, Cut & Restored Rope, Linking Rings, Egg Bag, Hippity Hop Rabbits, and the Rabbit out of the Hat. They are classics for a reason—they have stood the test of time and they work!
"Love is the real magic." -Doug Henning
www.KenNorthridge.com |
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Al Angello Eternal Order Collegeville, Pa. USA 11045 Posts |
Ken
I have had too many little boys shout out "I've seen that one" to me at my shows. No one shouts that out at any of my shows now. Of course there is nothing new in magic, but I try my best to have an original presentation, of the tried and proven principals of magic. Chaz I don't get it. If you spent years studying the art of juggling, but you don't do any juggling in your magic show what was the point of your years of practice?
Al Angello The Comic Juggler/Magician
http://www.juggleral.com http://home.comcast.net/~juggleral/ "Footprints on your ceiling are almost gone" |
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