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Metatron
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MagicbyCarlo
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On 2010-03-20 10:05, Metatron wrote:
Here is my sheep preparing to go do a magic show!

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Brahahahahahahahahhahhahahahaa! I sprayed coffee out of my nose!
Carlo DeBlasio
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Calvin Tong
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We had Shawn Farquhar lecture at IBM Ring 216 in SJ, Calif a few weeks back. If you have not heard his story, you should. Many years ago, a guy went after him after a show, followed him home, burned his apartment complex down, etc....

that is just the beginning of the story......
Cal Tong
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Jon Hackett
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You really do have to be pretty stupid to think that it is better to allow guns as a constitutional right than to ban them.

It is not a complex, difficult, or even inherently logical discussion, it is fact.

People don't like getting hurt or killed.

Moreover, Kirk, I wrote a 60,000 word article on why the US of A is seen as less favourable to the world than the UK. I practically disposed of that title and merely discussed the socio-economic, and colloquial implications of the guns laws in the USA. My findings pointed to so much hurt, pain and dissatisfaction that I found it remarkable that anyone could even consider it a reasonable idea. And the only argument that was seen to be a fair one (as tested by Leeds university on a sample of 12,000 international students across the country [UK]) was this,

"I have a right to my own protection"

But as ol' spiddy's Uncle Ben said,

with great power comes great responsibility.

It is true that you have a right to your own protection, but before that right comes your responsibility, to create nurture an provide a safe and loving environment for your family, and other families to then interact with. Guns are out of place here. No one wants to go round to crazy Joe's house 'cos he got the gun!

If all the pro-arms protesters spent their time creating a safe environment through crime prevention instead of crime protection you would have a beautifully safe country.

It is funny because there are very few countries in the world that share the same community spirit and nationalism (read: patriotism) that the USA does, and with that if you just concentrated on you responsibilities your rights would be free flowing.

It is wonderful to see that Obama has the foresight that Beven (the 'inventor' of the social welfare system (NHS) in England) and Clement Atlee (labour PM whom initiated the creation of the welfare system and the NHS) showed, and all people in the US of A should hopefully be provided with good quality healthcare.

Lets hope that same respect for treatment is taken with prevention, and drop the guns!!

Just my opinions...

Jon Hackett

P.S. should you carry protection to gigs? Well what do you think I am going to say!! NO. But I believe the answer is simple, don't make your self a target. don't carry a shiny briefcase, don't wear a £2000 watch, and drop out of character and stop grabbing attention. I carry all my stuff in a plastic bag.
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
M Sini
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Quote:
On 2010-03-31 07:01, Jon Hackett wrote:
You really do have to be pretty stupid to think that it is better to allow guns as a constitutional right than to ban them.

It is not a complex, difficult, or even inherently logical discussion, it is fact.

People don't like getting hurt or killed.

Moreover, Kirk, I wrote a 60,000 word article on why the US of A is seen as less favourable to the world than the UK. I practically disposed of that title and merely discussed the socio-economic, and colloquial implications of the guns laws in the USA. My findings pointed to so much hurt, pain and dissatisfaction that I found it remarkable that anyone could even consider it a reasonable idea. And the only argument that was seen to be a fair one (as tested by Leeds university on a sample of 12,000 international students across the country [UK]) was this,

"I have a right to my own protection"

But as ol' spiddy's Uncle Ben said,

with great power comes great responsibility.

It is true that you have a right to your own protection, but before that right comes your responsibility, to create nurture an provide a safe and loving environment for your family, and other families to then interact with. Guns are out of place here. No one wants to go round to crazy Joe's house 'cos he got the gun!

If all the pro-arms protesters spent their time creating a safe environment through crime prevention instead of crime protection you would have a beautifully safe country.

It is funny because there are very few countries in the world that share the same community spirit and nationalism (read: patriotism) that the USA does, and with that if you just concentrated on you responsibilities your rights would be free flowing.

It is wonderful to see that Obama has the foresight that Beven (the 'inventor' of the social welfare system (NHS) in England) and Clement Atlee (labour PM whom initiated the creation of the welfare system and the NHS) showed, and all people in the US of A should hopefully be provided with good quality healthcare.

Lets hope that same respect for treatment is taken with prevention, and drop the guns!!

Just my opinions...

Jon Hackett

P.S. should you carry protection to gigs? Well what do you think I am going to say!! NO. But I believe the answer is simple, don't make your self a target. don't carry a shiny briefcase, don't wear a £2000 watch, and drop out of character and stop grabbing attention. I carry all my stuff in a plastic bag.


So what is this Jon? Fact or Opinion?

Your second sentence says "fact" and then you sign off with "just my opinions..."

In my opinion, it was a waste of time to read.
Jon Hackett
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Your opinion was a lot less interesting than mine though Smile

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
Donnie Buckley
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Jon, In other parts of the civilized world, in first world countries, the citizens are more socially evolved than they are in the US.
We need weapons in America for protection because America has dangerous, uneducated and unloved sociopathic misanthropes who learn their values from television and movies. Too many of our citizens have a gangster mentality: me first, and to h*ll with the rest.
Hopefully someday education will catch up to the overwhelming sense of self-esteem that the ignoramus's have and crime will not be a way of life for so many of these idiots so the rest of us can relax.
But until that happens, the rest of us keep firearms in our homes so we can protect our loved ones from the brutal behavior that the idiots perpetrate.
It's true that much of the fear of brutality is paranoia from fictions depicted on television and movies, but it only takes one true incident of brutality in your city to make it feel like it could happen to you at any instant and to keep a suspiscious eye on strangers, regardless of how rarely a brutal attack in your city occurs.

It's probably hard for an outsider to understand. Large parts of the US are VERY safe places to live and weapons are unnecessary, but the pockets of high crime areas pollute paradise. Hence the disparity of opinions within our own borders.

BTW, while I respect your opinion, I do think your suggestion that we HIDE our valuables is ridiculous.
Jon Hackett
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I would agree everything you say DDecea.

Of coarse choosing not to hide your valuables is a very dangerous attitude in my view, and the more flash you flash the more you'll be blinded!

But thanks for taking the time to read my rather pointless post.

Jon Hackett

p.s. none of us understand each other, even a few miles can change the microcosm of our minds so much, we can all become intolerable.
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
Adammcd
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Derrick, what's important is that you do what is best for you. If your comfortable and you want to because you feel like you need protection the constitution allows you to. If you don't want to, then I wouldn't. I think choosing to carry/purchase a weapon of any kind is a very personal decision and it is up to the individual whether they should or not.

Adam
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KirkG
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Jon,

Well if you are going to call people stupid for not agreeing with you, then that is the pot calling the kettle black. You are entitled to your opinion however wrong or flawed the reasoning behind it. All I ask is that you don't foist your erroneous beliefs on others.

We should all feel perfectly comfortable wearing our best jewels and clothes and fancy cars visiting any neighborhood. However, it is FACT that the neighborhood where all citizens are allowed to carry guns, are the ones with the lower violent crime rate. So not allowing guns doesn't seem to be working. Just another fact.

People who own or enjoy guns aren't wacked out crazy types and by and large have a great family life and are very responsible with those guns. Come on over for a BBQ and then let's going skiing and shooting! Don't go over to "Crazy Joe's house as he is already not allowed to have guns, based on his mental and legal status. I know you meant him specifically, rather than lumping all pro gun individuals into that one category cause that would be stupid. Opps, I forgot, Pot.

The reason that it is a constitutional right to keep and bear arms is to prevent governments removing the rest of the rights of the people. Do a little history reading and you will see that registration and then confiscation is the order of events. You don't even have to go to the extreme case of the Third Reich to see this, just look at recent events in Australia.

I do totally agree that with great power comes great responsibility. Too bad so many of our politicians don't seem to agree. Good thing we have our guns in case it comes to that.

Too many liberals are coddling criminals, so it isn't about pro gun nuts not working to fix society. Jails don't work. Bullets do. Criminals exist. They don't obey laws. Cops are not required to protect any individual. So people are responsible for their own protection. A few more facts for you.

So Jon, get a grip. I think the world would much rather live in America than the UK. Just another fact. Do the math.
TheAmbitiousCard
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I love when people write "foist". I'm gonna read Kirk's post again.
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Tim Dowd
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Jon, you have to understand that in America assassination is still seen as a political tool. If the government get too powerful assassinate them; why else have guns?. It takes time for democracies to realize that the people and the government are the same thing, the only enemy of democracy is apathy.

But this thread was about carrying protection to gigs... if you are in an area where bricks are thrown wear a helmet, if you live in an area where strangers beat you up for doing something they don't like (some inner city English pubs at closing time... road rage junkies on the M25, etc.) wear body armor. If you have a weapon of any sort on your person during a violent event, that weapon escalates the situation and could be used against you. Assuming yours is the only weapon it does not make you safer because theoretically the aggressor (not you) will have less qualms about using the weapon.

I just realized there are two asses in assassination and only one in assume.

Frank what do you think of qualms?
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Tricky Tom
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Quote:


I have heard of a 9mm or 10mm, even a 45 calbre, I've carried all three on the job, but a 40 mm shell would be 1&5/8 inches across. I don't believe anyone makes a handgun like that.

he probably ment a 40 calbre, aint nobody making a 40 mm handgun ,umless its a flare gun.
KirkG
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Not just assassination, but revolt too!

I gotta be honest, I really don't think I will require "protection" at most of my gigs. Maybe getting to the gig, you know LA freeways. LOL

I can't remember a time when a magic show patron ever got upset, even when they lost money in a wager. I have seen drunks a time or two, get out of hand, but deadly force is not appropriate there most of the time. If it ever does "get" to be necessary, I am thankful I have that option.
Jon Hackett
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All lots of interesting thoughts, and a very interesting thread!

I do stand by what I say, I thoroughly researched and considered my work which was praised highly.

There is a serious logical disconnect in saying that I think people are stupid because they don't agree with me and that is 'pot calling kettle black' but it is a great saying.

I just want to point something out though, sorry for being a bit panickity

'We should all feel perfectly comfortable wearing our best jewels and clothes and fancy cars visiting any neighborhood. However, it is FACT that the neighborhood where all citizens are allowed to carry guns, are the ones with the lower violent crime rate. So not allowing guns doesn't seem to be working. Just another fact.'

Kirk my man, these are not facts, in order to have a fact you need three things, something measurable, something to compare it to, and a control.

The issue is that nobody can say that there is more or less crime with or without guns because no one place can exist in parallel time being exposed to all the same factors minus guns. So unfortunately there are no facts in those terms, but we can still have sociological measures by which we can stereotype and thus 'some-up' more easily.

Anyway, I'm not going to rant on.

Nice to speak to y'all!

Jon Hackett
It is not the brains that matter most, but that which guides them -- the character, the heart, generous qualities and progressive ideas. Doystoyevsky
msmaster
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I always carry an AK47 in my guitar case.
M Sini
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Quote:
On 2010-04-01 03:44, Jon Hackett wrote:

'We should all feel perfectly comfortable wearing our best jewels and clothes and fancy cars visiting any neighborhood. However, it is FACT that the neighborhood where all citizens are allowed to carry guns, are the ones with the lower violent crime rate. So not allowing guns doesn't seem to be working. Just another fact.'

Kirk my man, these are not facts, in order to have a fact you need three things, something measurable, something to compare it to, and a control.

Nice to speak to y'all!

Jon Hackett


Jon, actually it is FACT.

States that approve right to carry experience a significant decline in violent crime rates after the right to carry laws take effect. According to FBI crime statistics states implementing right to carry experience:
An 8 percent drop in murder rates
A 7 percent drop in aggravated assaults
A 5 percent drop in rapes
A 4.9 percent drop in all violent crime
A 2.2 percent decline in robberies.


In the U.S. anyway.
gaddy
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Wow!

Truly, all discrepancies and all statistical misrepresentations on this subject (that have, curiously enough, eluded law enforcement and social scientists since... well, since forever, basically...) have now been cleared up and neatly proven on this discussion thread IN A MAGIC FORUM ABOUT RESTAURANT WORKERS...

So now we know everything that could possibly be said on the subject.

Good work guys!
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
KirkG
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Gaddy,

Your sarcastic pokes at the information that exists outside of these forums is startling. I mean, who is to say that the Dr.'s and Lawyers and other professionals that frequent these forums don't have access to facts about other topics? You may have limited intellect and outside interests, but don't foist (that is for Frank) your handicap on others.

Jon,

You seem to be confusing "facts" with an "ideal experiment." Facts don't require parallel worlds to exist. What a load of c**p! ( Can we say that on here?) I am trying not to call you stupid, but you are making it very hard. You are using the Pro Gun Control practice of making broad, in accurate and unfounded, ridiculous statements and expecting us all to accept them as facts.

This has nothing to do with your scholastic paper, however well received, but only your comments here.
Donnie Buckley
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Actually, The National Research Council, of the National Academy of Sciences, cannot find any credible evidence either supporting or disproving that C&C laws reduce crime.
In 2009, the Public Health Law Research organization published an evidence summary concluding there is not enough evidence to establish the effectiveness of "Shall-Issue" laws as a public health intervention to reduce violent crime.
For every researcher saying there is a decrease in crime, there's another saying there is none.
Here's a great statistic based upon pubicly avialable records:
The Violence Policy Center documents that from May 2007 through the end of 2009, concealed carry permit holders in the U.S. have killed (that's non-justifiable homicide) at least 117 individuals, including 9 law enforcement officers.

It appears to be a case of "finding what you want" in the available data based upon your political motives.
So let's not condemn anyone for alleging the facts here - the facts are still quite open to interpretation.
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