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Mr. Mystoffelees
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On 2010-08-19 17:44, Woland wrote:
May I apologize for referring to the late Mr. Herbert Clutter as "Herb." He was not personally known to me, and the use of that nickname was presumptuous and disrespectful.

Woland


That name jogs my mind about the horrible crime that resulted in Capote's book. About 10 years later the Manson family once again reminded us that if we depend on the law of averages for our defense some of us will be very disappointed.

To the question, I would not carry to a gig. I must admit, however, that concealed carry provides, for me, access to places and peace of mind I could not get from the protection the police are able to provide.

Hopefully it is just this one guy's poor attitude, but for me the world has, sadly, gotten much colder.

Enjoy your reasoned posts, Woland...

Jim

p.s.- Derrick: Just a thought, but I have started mixing a bit of pitching with my busking and magic. It is amazing what, and how much, you can sell at a gig! Perhaps pitch a kit with (a) simple instructions, (b) ten balloons, and even perhaps (c) one of those itty-bitty pumps - all in a zip lock. Bet you could sell one to every one who is disappointed and do pretty well. Plus, no mad guy, maybe...
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
derrick
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Mandarin, I don't want to create a reason to carry and I think trying and sell an already mad person a bag of ten balloons and a pump to make his/her own balloon animals would do just that. In the amount of time it would take to do this, I could have made the balloon figure. I'm not talking about busking but simply trying to leave a two or three hour gig in a reasonable amount of time after your time is up.
Mr. Mystoffelees
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Well, I didn't say it was a good idea, just a thought... good luck, derrick.
Also known, when doing rope magic, as "Cordini"
Woland
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Mandarin - Jim -

Thank you for your kind comments. I have always appreciated your thoughtful and useful posts on many subjects here at The Magic Café.

I don't think that I have recommended that anyone carry or not carry a weapon. If in the course of responding to a previous post, I have appeared to advocate gun toting, I apologize. I agree that each individual should consider whether to carry a firearm or not himself or herself, and come to his or her own conclusions. I do think the decision should be made on a rational basis, however, and not be overly influenced by what Colonel Cooper termed "hoplophobia."

I have tried to provide factually correct descriptions of what is involved in obtaining a concealed carry permit in our various states, and historically correct accounts of what has happened in jurisdictions that either have permitted law abiding citizens to arm themselves for their own defense, or have forbidden them from doing so.

Residents of the United States and of the United Kingdom were perfectly free to carry handguns without any thought of permits or licenses until the latter part of the 19th century in the US, and the early part of the 20th century in Britain. It would have been assumed in most parts of the United States and in Britain, during the Victorian and Edwardian eras, that most adult men would gone about armed at any time they thought it prudent to do so. The first "gun control" laws in the United States were passed during the Jim Crow era to disarm Negroes. In Britain, the original intention of the earliest "gun control" laws was to disarm the laboring classes.

I have also tried to remind our readers, Americans and others, that the Constitution does not give us any rights, but rather instructs the federal government to respect the unalienable rights with which our Creator endowed us.

I will repeat that the purpose of carrying a handgun should not be conceived of a way to make it safe, or if not safe then merely somewhat safer, to visit dangerous areas. A handgun would be a poor choice for that purpose. Long guns are much more accurate and effective that short guns. If you knew you were going into a dangerous area, a rifle or a shotgun would be a much better choice. My choice, as a civilian, would be to avoid such a dangerous area in the first place. The purpose of carrying a handgun is to have at least some sort of equalizer available in a situation that you had previously assumed would be safe. The portability of a handgun makes it possible to have one handy, as it were, at all times.

A firearm is quite evidently a dangerous instrument. It would be useless if that were not true. But there are many other instruments we use in daily life that are equally dangerous or more dangerous.

At my age, and due to my physical infirmities, without a firearm, I would probably not be able to defend myself against even one attacker without incurring severe injuries. It is likely that in an unarmed brawl, I would be killed or crippled. Experience has shown me that submitting to a miscreant who even threatens you with violence is unlikely to provide a reasonable assurance that you will not be injured or killed anyway. I do not choose to submit to evil, and I have therefore prepared accordingly. I am grateful for the life-saving, civil-peace-enhancing, polite-behavior-promoting technology provided to me by Samuel Colt, Horace Smith, Daniel Wesson, and the incomparable John Moses Browning.

Woland
daffydoug
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In all my years, it never occurred to me that the world is in such sad shape that it has become necessary for a magician to pack a gun.

But I guess with the many stories you hear on the news everyday, it's probably something I should consider.

I never shot a weapon, so I would need training.

Wait. I take that back, I did get M16 training in Boot Camp decades ago, but that was so long ago, I'm sure I don't remember a thing about how to do it.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
Rafael The Master Hypnotist
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Are you sure he is not the guy behind the Masked Magician...Sorry I couldn't help it
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gaddy
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Quote:
On 2010-09-01 19:02, daffydoug wrote:
In all my years, it never occurred to me that the world is in such sad shape that it has become necessary for a magician to pack a gun.

But I guess with the many stories you hear on the news everyday, it's probably something I should consider.

I never shot a weapon, so I would need training.

Wait. I take that back, I did get M16 training in Boot Camp decades ago, but that was so long ago, I'm sure I don't remember a thing about how to do it.
I'm sure there are at least a couple of guys on this thread who just can't wait to give you a lot of useless opinions and advice...
*due to The Magic Cafe's editorial policies, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
daffydoug
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As far as how to fire a weapon? I would be willing to hear it, but the only way to learn would be hands on. And that was not meant as a pun.

Purchasing and learning to fire a weapon would really represent a major change in my life attitude. Or even more accurately, my life's perspective.
The difficult must become easy, the easy beautiful and the beautiful magical.
KirkG
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Gaddy,

I am glad you were the first. Smile
Woland
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In 2009, American private citizens purchased a total of 14 million firearms -- more than the 21 largest armies in the world combined. Americans also purchased 14 billion rounds of ammunition last year. Recognition of the right to carry a firearm is steadily increasing across the United States -- and in Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont, no special permit of any kind is required of a law-abiding citizen who wishes to go armed.

To compound what some would see as a dangerous situation, unemployment is up to levels unimagined since the end of the Second World War. The real estate market is in a state of near collapse.

And crime? According to the FBI 2009 statistics, crime is way down. Murder is down 7%. Armed robbery is down 8%. Rape is down almost 3%.

Robert Heinlein was right: an armed society is a polite society.

Although it looks like more women need to get out to the range and sign up for a concealed carry class.

Respectfully submitted,

Woland

PS No need to explain statistical correlation to me. I know that these numbers do not "prove" that more guns mean less crime. But they do prove that more guns do not mean more mayhem.
The Mighty Fool
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There's a cartoon (Hagar the Horrible) in which Hagr's wife comments on how calm & peaceful their neihborhood is, and then the scene zooms out showing lots of people walking around, all armed to the teeth, and Hagar replie "Of course! Who'd be dumb enough to start a fight in this neighborhood?"
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Chance
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On 2010-02-24 14:57, derrick wrote:
Oh, and Christopher - it was no mistake. Same isle and eye contact.


Derrick, I guess it never occurred to you or we wouldn't be here writing about it, but at this point (while being stalked in the home store) I would have gone directly up to the guy and said, "Hey, sorry about having to ditch like that, but where's your kid now? I've got some balloons here burning a hole in my pocket!", etc. I'm pretty sure that deflection and self-deprecation gets better results than running for the nearest gun store.
jugglestruck
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Quote:
On 2010-09-14 14:07, Woland wrote:
In 2009, American private citizens purchased a total of 14 million firearms -- more than the 21 largest armies in the world combined. Americans also purchased 14 billion rounds of ammunition last year. Recognition of the right to carry a firearm is steadily increasing across the United States -- and in Alaska, Arizona, and Vermont, no special permit of any kind is required of a law-abiding citizen who wishes to go armed.

To compound what some would see as a dangerous situation, unemployment is up to levels unimagined since the end of the Second World War. The real estate market is in a state of near collapse.

And crime? According to the FBI 2009 statistics, crime is way down. Murder is down 7%. Armed robbery is down 8%. Rape is down almost 3%.

Robert Heinlein was right: an armed society is a polite society.

Although it looks like more women need to get out to the range and sign up for a concealed carry class.

Respectfully submitted,

Woland

PS No need to explain statistical correlation to me. I know that these numbers do not "prove" that more guns mean less crime. But they do prove that more guns do not mean more mayhem.


Interesting point but I would respectfully suggest a different outcome.
When you say "But they (the statistics)do prove that more guns do not mean more mayhem" my response would be at this time in history, no, but how will it affect us in three, five, ten or twenty years from now?
As a race we can be very short sighted in what is good for the species long term, look at the pollution problems we have now which we turned a blind eye to thirty years ago.
I can not say what the future holds regarding guns but I do know that arming civilians to the teeth now strikes me as a dangerous long term strategy and we do so at our peril.
Woland
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Dear Jugglestruck,

American civilians have been "armed to the teeth" for 4 centuries. In 2009, Americans bought more firearms than are in the inventories of the 21 largest armies in the world. The total number of firearms in private hands in the United States is an order of magnitude larger than that -- there are at least 300 million firearms in the hands of civilians in the United States. Only an infinitesimal fraction of those firearms are used by criminals for nefarious purposes.

And until the middle of the 20th century, most Britons who could afford to buy a firearm were armed, as well. Well into the Edwardian era (read your Conan Doyle), doctors, lawyers, and Anglican divines commonly carried revolvers.

In peaceful Switzerland, every adult man who is enrolled in the armed services -and that is most men between the ages of 18 and 45- is required to keep at home a fully automatic battle rifle and at least 200 rounds of ammunition. (Depending on their assignments, some may also keep other ordnance, including mines and grenades at home. The Swiss intend to defend their freedom at a moment's notice.)

We have seen in the United States, over the past decade, that with increasing public and legal support for the right to carry a concealed firearm, that violent crime is steadily diminishing.

The widespread distribution of firearms is seen by most people on this side of the Atlantic as a guarantee both of their personal security and of the security of our freedoms, and of our Constitutional governmental regime or "ordered liberty." I don't think another 30 years will change that.

Woland
jugglestruck
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Hi Woland,

Thank you for your response and I appreciate your point.
I am just going away for the week so I will have to keep this brief.
I think the whole issue of guns runs on far too many levels than is appropriate for discussion on the Café (we have already stumbled a fair way off topic I feel) so I suggest we draw an amicable line under this as neither of us can foresee the future (although I did claim to at a wedding last night!).

Even though I have taken issue with your posts I have enjoyed reading them and they have given me food for thought.

Best wishes,

Luke
Woland
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Thank you, Luke, for your kind response. This discussion might have been moved to another forum, but we keep circling back to the original question, whether a magician should carry a firearm to an engagement.

I am not a professional magician, so I have not had to face that dilemma. And I would not presume to offer advice on firearms to professional or amateur magicians.

For me, it is a matter of civic responsibility. There have been too many occasions when lives were needlessly surrendered to miscreants because someone did not carry a weapon that day, despite being duly permitted.

I carry everywhere that it is legally permitted. It has become as natural to me as wearing my clothes. In fact, I generally wear a firearm in my own house. Although I keep loaded firearms in closets both upstairs and downstairs, they are shut behind closets, and I might not be able to get to one in a moment of dire need. Better to be safe than sorry.

Woland
derrick
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Chance,

For one, I didn't have a pocket full of balloons and asking the guy to walk out to my car with me was the furthest thing from my mind. I was surprised and caught off guard, thus the reason for this somewhat knee jerk post.

As with any event, it is easy to go back and rewrite one's actions to better suit the situation. All I can do at this point is live today and do my best to adjust my behavior so hopefully I don't repeat yesterdays mistakes.

For example, while much of this has been very good food for thought and even entertaining at times, I promise to never post anything again about guns if those in charge will just put an end this thread.
Jon Hackett
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Your a funny guy Woland, of coarse! What else would one do when there is a maniac with a gun holding up the coffee shop? Run on in there! And draw your gun!

Hey that's not a gun!

THIS is a gun!

I do enjoy reading your posts on this thread, they are among the funniest things I have read on the Café.

JH
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Tim Dowd
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I promised never to post in this thread again... BUT
I vote to close it.

Anyone second that?
Timothy Dowd
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Woland
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Jon,

I'm pleased that you enjoy your reading here.

Tim,

Why does it bother you to leave this thread open?

Are you so afraid of the facts, or of someone else's differeing point of view?

If you don't like the subject, isn't it a simple matter just to skip over the topic?

Woland
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