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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Tricks & Effects » » Mastermind by Chris Kenworthy (5 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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taller8
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This one is a no brainer. So clean and easy to handle. This deck almost seems like a gift at 30.00.
Tim Trono
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It’s a little unclear to me why the deck by CardMaker is not being questioned more. Maybe I am missing something here. Mastermind was developed and released by Chris Kenworthey a number of years ago (since at least 1986). He has since put it out in Bicycle Cards (obviously he is entitled to do this as it is his item). Thus one cannot just change the suit of the card and consider that an acceptable release without Chris’ permission. It would be like me putting out SuperFly in US quarters and assuming that is OK- it is not. I can’t take Monkey In The Middle, B’Wave, Twisted Sisters, etc., print them in another back style, and call it mine or assume it is OK to do - it is not. It’s not legally or ethically acceptable. The “Monte Cristo" decks came out after “Mastermind” and at that time it was not really questioned but probably should have been as “Mastermind” was advertised in Genii and was widely known so it was not a secret that this item was out already. Now that it is getting increased attention due to the change to Bicycle cards it doesn't seem right for someone to change the face of the card and assume that is a legitimate item. I know Chris Kenworthey has made an agreement with US Playing Card Company and thus I know THEY are not printing a similar item so I am not sure how one can legally get US Playing Cards printed without them (USPCC) being part of it. It feels like there are some legal and ethical issues not being questioned here.

Tim
pegasus
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Bernd and Neil Lester were the first to produce these on bicycle stock, as far as I know, so I don't see any issue. As long as the force card is different.
JanForster
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No, this is no issue at all. The MC Deck is very old, you could buy these already in the late seventies in Germany, but not in Bic stock. It doesn't matter how somebody names "his invention". Jan
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gilbreath76
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Quote:
On 2010-03-01 12:41, magichunter wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-02-27 01:34, Douglas Lippert wrote:
From the trick description in Magic Magazine, you place a card in an envelope and mail it to your spectator.

The day of the performance you spread the cards face up and they select one. The card in the envelope has a different colored back but both the faces both match. (let's say 3 of spades).

Anyway, this is not ACAAN, it's a prediction.

Is there a second routine I'm missing?


Your are right. That routine is not ACAAN, but with this deck you can shuffle, show the cards to be randomly distibuted and all different, have a spectator touch ANY card from a face down spread, show that card and remember it. (This is now the the card the spectator is THINKING OF)

The card is then returned the deck and the deck can be cut and shuffled as much as desired. The spectator names a number (1 - 52) counts down to that number and the "thought of card" will indeed be at that number. All of the remaining cards can then be shown again to all be different.

This isn't ACAAN in the strictest sense (THINK of any card), but I am telling you from experience that the reaction to this is THE SAME to the average spectator.

Oh.....and it is easy peasy to do.

Joe


I think that's overkill. Something to the effect of fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me. If I'm a spectator I'm thinking in my selection, YOU turned the card over, and in the count down, YOU turned the card over. If you want to do some form of ACAAN, I would just have the prediction in the envelope, no need for a selection process. He calls out a number, you deal to it and turn the card over. Furthermore, the prediction card is a totally normal card, there is tremendous psychological value in that.

That's just me! I think one turnover is perfect for the magic! Two turnovers may make a spectator start to think and reconstruct things.
MaxfieldsMagic
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That sounds like sound reasoning. Why repeat the move?

With the prediction effect, even if you only do the the move once, you might want to clean things up as soon as possible with a t** ch**** for a regular version while the spec is getting the prediction out of the envelope. Sorry if someone said that earlier, or if it's already in the instructions...
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J.Robert
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I have a Mastermind deck. I'm not sure what all the hype is about. How is it any different to put a blue backed card in an envelope, GIVE someone a normal red backed deck to examine and shuffle till their heart's content, then use any of the hundreds of convincing forces we know to get them to choose the match to the prediction? I can only use this deck for one effect, and not allow it to be examined at that. I can see using it to fool magicians, but I have also seen the criss-cross used very convincingly on a lay audience.
taller8
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You pay for clean.
Failed Magician
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I can see his point and can't say I'm not disagree with it. But sometimes a trick has some certain altitude of results and easiness, that's what we pay for.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
CardMaker
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Quote:
On 2010-05-02 21:42, J.Robert wrote:
..., then use any of the hundreds of convincing forces we know ...


1. NO force at all! You can't be more fair.

Quote:
On 2010-05-02 21:42, J.Robert wrote:
... I can only use this deck for one effect, ...


2. As with some other "utility decks" like a stripper deck - you are limited by imagination! I have more than 1 trick I can do with it!

Quote:
On 2010-05-02 21:42, J.Robert wrote:
...and not allow it to be examined at that....


3. The general problem magicians have: thinking of having examined things! It is a (regular) deck of cards! Why should it be examined? Remember: it's not a gimmick or gaff that makes the trick - it is YOU!

Quote:
On 2010-05-02 21:42, J.Robert wrote:
... I'm not sure what all the hype is about. ...


I don't understand that too Smile
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J.Robert
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1. Technically, you could be a bit more fair, if of course, you just hand them the deck and don't touch the cards. But the magi must handle the cards with this deck. Even with a Svengali deck the spectator can handle the card.

2. I know of many effects I could use this with, I'm just saying that this deck can only be used for one effect per performance. After you've used it for it's purpose to force the card (and subsequently miraculously reveal it), there is really nothing else you can do with it like you could with a normal deck. I do understand that it could be switched out easily enough, but then I'm carrying another one-trick deck.

3. Trust me, there are many time when I have a regular deck and don't say anything about the cards being examined and I am asked by the spectator to prove that it is a normal deck (side note: I work in a firehouse, the guys at my station won't let me get away with anything!). A lot of people have seen magic decks of cards at dollar stores, people know they exist. So if I'm about to have a card selected--and past the point of switching in a normal deck for that purpose--it could be a potentially awkward situation.

Regardless of all that, I already purchased it, so I'm going to use it once or twice anyway...before it eventually ends up on eBay!
Proximo
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Quote:

1. NO force at all! You can't be more fair.


Well, there are a few ways you can do this quite clean I guess...
Failed Magician
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IMHO, this kind of deck is different than Stripper or Svengali. Due to the unique setup of this deck, of course we might be able to do one or two more tricks, but not as many as Svengali or Stripper Deck. Not to mention about inspection by the spectators. We can hand out a Stripper Deck with comfort while not with Svengali or Mastermind Deck.
Magic comes through perception. -HS
Bill Palmer
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 19:46, Tim Trono wrote:
It’s a little unclear to me why the deck by CardMaker is not being questioned more. Maybe I am missing something here. Mastermind was developed and released by Chris Kenworthey a number of years ago (since at least 1986). He has since put it out in Bicycle Cards (obviously he is entitled to do this as it is his item). Thus one cannot just change the suit of the card and consider that an acceptable release without Chris’ permission. It would be like me putting out SuperFly in US quarters and assuming that is OK- it is not. I can’t take Monkey In The Middle, B’Wave, Twisted Sisters, etc., print them in another back style, and call it mine or assume it is OK to do - it is not. It’s not legally or ethically acceptable. The “Monte Cristo" decks came out after “Mastermind” and at that time it was not really questioned but probably should have been as “Mastermind” was advertised in Genii and was widely known so it was not a secret that this item was out already. Now that it is getting increased attention due to the change to Bicycle cards it doesn't seem right for someone to change the face of the card and assume that is a legitimate item. I know Chris Kenworthey has made an agreement with US Playing Card Company and thus I know THEY are not printing a similar item so I am not sure how one can legally get US Playing Cards printed without them (USPCC) being part of it. It feels like there are some legal and ethical issues not being questioned here.

Tim


That's simple, Tim. If Cardmaker is correct, the deck is over 100 years old.
Quote:
"BTW, did you know that “The Jinx” is supposed to have written an article about that deck in 1940, where it was said that a man called Henry Hardin sold it in 1909 at a price of $3.00. Gosh, that is 100 years ago!"


This deck is not a new idea.

BTW, these can be made perfectly legally if CardMaker purchases and alters genuine USPCCo playing cards. However, if he is printing his own backs, that's illegal.
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JanForster
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Again: the deck is roughly 100 years old! Chris Kenworthey did not put out something new. The deck was simply forgotten. Peter Kersten put it once again on the German market in the late 70ties. Cardmaker did not say he invented something new. The Mastermind Deck is o. k., but has the huge disadvantage (I don't know why somebody could make this decision) that the 2 regular cards are court cards. It makes far more sense to choose 2 spot cards which are also one way cards (face side). Jan
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CardMaker
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Just aquote from the free MagiPedia:

http://geniimagazine.com/wiki/index.php/Monte_Cristo_Pack

Monte Cristo Pack or ("Peerless Monte-Cristo Cards") is a Forcing Deck developed by Henry Hardin, produced by Theodore DeLand and put on the market in December 1908.

As advertised in 1909, "One of the card hits of the century, the nearest approach to the supernatural yet discovered, a spectator looks at any card in the deck and suite name, etc., is found written on a piece of paper in a sealed envelope in another spectator's possession."

A later development of the deck was the Telomatic Deck and was an early version of the Tossed Out Deck

References
•Edwards Monthly, Vol. 1. No. 1, Feb 1909
•202 Methods of Forcing by Theodore Annemann (1933)
•Conjurers' Magazine, Vol 1, No. 1 , Feb, 1945
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Craig Dickson
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I guess what I see is simple, riding someone elses coat tails due to a new popularity created from reviews, advertising, and dealers investing in this. There is always legal, and then there is what values you hold close to you. From what I am reading, legal seems to be all that matters these days.
Failed Magician
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Any news on Cardmaker's Monte Cristo Deck?
Magic comes through perception. -HS
CardMaker
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Quote:
On 2010-05-17 09:14, Failed Magician wrote:
Any news on Cardmaker's Monte Cristo Deck?


There are!
But you have to wait until June 1st .... then visit my website.
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Craig Dickson
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Just some basic info, which seems to have not been understood about Mastermind. If you read the back of it, it is all printed there. Chris never claimed to have originated a mis-printed pip card or deck, nor the concept of Any Card At Any Number, which of course David Berglas did. But it was his belief when he created the Mastermind Deck many years ago that using the mis-printed pip deck was a new, and in my opinion quite a brilliant variation, and twist on the Card at Any Number plot and the first time this type of deck was used for this. This is just to clarify many of the posts I have read here making all sorts of eroneous claims etc.
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