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mmreed Inner circle Harrisburg, PA 1432 Posts |
Curious what others think about this situation...and more importantly what you would have done...
I was speaking with a friend who was out busking... he had a table set up, was doing some monte and shell work - NOT betting... it was not a game of chance... just entertaining people. He had a tip jar set there. Musicians were busking around him. The cops came and made him shut down saying he was conning people, and playing games of chance. He explained there was no money in the games, just a tip jar... he even showed them what he was doing. They refused to let him stay and escorted him down the walkway past all the musicians busking. He did not fight with them or argue. He just packed up and went home. Its a great venue, but he is uncertain how to go back there now - given the cops are predisposed to him being a con man. What would you do? I suggested if he was serious, to attend a city council meeting and bring it up. Get someone higher up in the city aware of the issue and hopefully on your side since he was not running a monte for money show... I am hearing more and more magic buskers being chased away from spots while other performers get to remain - are you guys seeing or hearing this too?
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment |
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HerbLarry Special user Poof! 731 Posts |
Entertain without the use of anything gambling related as it seems they have no problem with busking.
You know why don't act naive.
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gaddy Inner circle Agent of Chaos 3526 Posts |
The shells and the monte will always attract the attention of the law, gambling or not.
Given that he actually had shells on him, he should consider himself lucky they didn't have a bug up their butts and escort him downtown. As to your last point, there is always favoritism and unfair advantages shown, at least where I live and work.
*due to the editorial policies here, words on this site attributed to me cannot necessarily be held to be my own.*
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Metatron Elite user Port Orchard, Washington 436 Posts |
The officers have no way of distinguishing between a Magician's version and an actual Con Artist version. They both use the same paraphernalia and money is involved.
Think about it, a Real Con could just throw his gambling money in a jar that says Tips, pull out his thumb tip and say "No Officer. I'm a MAGICIAN" wait till the cops leave and back to the Con. I would shy away from effects that look like known illegal activities, especially in a Busking situation. A person or business owner could just glance at what you where performing, and think, "I've seen that before it's that 3 card thing where they rip you off. I'm calling the cops. Don't want that going around here" ... So if you got an effect that looks like an illegal activity, like Three Card Monte, The Shell Game, Pick Pocket Stunts, Dice Tricks, The Appearing Gun, or the It's not Crack it's Soap Trick, don't do it on the street! Metatron |
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Bob Sanders Grammar Supervisor Magic Valley Ranch, Clanton, Alabama 20504 Posts |
In law school one of the first rules that will change your focus on justice is
the concept of "People of Ordinary Ignorance". Welcome to reality! Bob Sanders Magic By Sander |
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eddierush Regular user 147 Posts |
I agree with all the posts above. I would like to add one more suggestion.
Tell him to go back out there with effects that can never be mistaken for anything else other than magic: silk, rope, etc. Slowly establish yourself as a magician and not a con-man. Always cooperate with the police/security. They are people who are doing what they think is well within their duty to do. Remember also that they are people with their own likes and dislikes. It is entirely possible that they simply do not like magicians and felt that they can use their position and power to escort you off. Try if you can to educate them: tell and/or show them the effects you plan to perform, print and display a Magic Show sign, carry with you a small flyer that details the busking laws for that city. But in all circumstances - cooperate and stay out of jail to perform another day. Like it or not, in the eyes of the community/city/state he represents all other busking magicians. How he handles himself will reflect upon all others. Respond positively and we may not stick out as the (if I can be so bold) "sore thumb" in the US busking community. Again I say that I've seen many more really bad busking musicians (guitar, keyboard, etc) on regular basis than I see good busking magicians. That needs to change if we ever hope to prevent our art from once again slipping back into the shadows.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
http://magiceddie.wordpress.com http://friendsofthemagi.org |
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mmreed Inner circle Harrisburg, PA 1432 Posts |
Great advice.
The magic show sign is a must - it not only helps with issues like this, but adds some flair to your show and attracts attention. People want to see a show.
Mark Reed
Wedding and Event Entertainment |
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Bill Palmer Eternal Order Only Jonathan Townsend has more than 24312 Posts |
Harry Anderson presented three card monte on the Drag in Austin. He handled it by having a police officer watch the show. Harry would make sure that nobody actually even tried to bet anything. Then he would go into his hat pass and say something like "You can see that I could have easily wiped out your entire fortune with this gambling routine, if this fine officer had allowed me to gamble. But I didn't. So now, I'd like for you to take all the money that you would have lost to me and put it in my hat."
He got the police on his side.
"The Swatter"
Founder of CODBAMMC My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups." www.cupsandballsmuseum.com |
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eddierush Regular user 147 Posts |
Excellent point Bill!
It seems like street magicians that perform those kind of routines can be treated as, "guilty until proven innocent" in the eyes of the law. Welcome to the USA
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
http://magiceddie.wordpress.com http://friendsofthemagi.org |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
I told the story once about performing in Times Square back in the '70s. I was doing fine until a cop came up and broke up the show. one, he got nasty about it, telling the audience that was slow to leave that "go on, he isn't going to jump me." and two, then he actually wouldn't let me pack up and leave, no he had to give me a lecture on how he could have run me in. As I thought about it, it dawned on me that he stepped in just as I was starting "Color Monte" which is a parody of a three card monte game! I've been careful to keep anything that even remotely looks like gambling (thank god they don't confuse cups and balls for shells) out of my act.
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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sir real New user I've been tied to 85 Posts |
Believe it or not,I remember an incident of the monte catching heat in a magic shop of all places.
Counter guy demonstrated a gaffed version to a newbie customer,we're talking an adult seemingly in charge of his faculties.Customer went home and later called the po po and reported the shop "tried to con him into betting on a gambling scam".Cops investigated and decided it was a misunderstanding.But still,it was sort of a strange event.People do at times get confused over monte. Of course I guess that was the idea behind the game originally. |
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Pokie-Poke Special user Bensalem, PA 883 Posts |
I have to side with the cops on this one. they have no way of telling who is who and have better things to do with there time than watch you all day.
I have also seen guys switch from magic to con and back during a show! even saw a guy who would bet with the kids, If they win they get candy, so to his way of thinking it wasn't gambling, he still would take there money. One of the first tricks I learned as a kid was the shell game, and one of the first buskers I can remember watching as a kid, (could just see the top of the table) was also the shell game. but it is to close to reality, and is better left at home.
www.pokie-poke.com
The Adventure cont... |
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dcjames Special user 577 Posts |
Slightly off topic -
Back in the mid-90's a group of us got together after a magic club meeting and headed to a local restaurant. We ordered our drinks and settled in to talk and enjoy more magic. One guy was showing us his Matrix routine while another was practicing Faro shuffles as he watched. Before the waiter could return to take our food order, the owner of the restaurant came over and demanded that the cards and money be put away. We tried to show him a few effects to convince him that we were magicians, not gamblers and the guy gets furious. He starts screaming that we are not welcome there, and demanded we leave immediately. So there we are standing in the parking lot trying to decide where we wanted to go now, when the police arrive demanding to know exactly what we were doing. Fortunately, the officers were much more reasonable and after enjoying a few card tricks, told us to have a good evening. We moved to another restaurant a few blocks away and had a great time. I've always wondered what the policemen said to the owner of the restaraunt after we left.
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”
Tommy Wonder The Books of Wonder Volume 2 |
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Pokie-Poke Special user Bensalem, PA 883 Posts |
Did the place have a bar? I have herd that in some states it is illegal to have cards in a place that serves alcohol.
www.pokie-poke.com
The Adventure cont... |
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ed rhodes Inner circle Rhode Island 2885 Posts |
But then, wouldn't it have been easier if the owner of the restaurant had simply said; "I can get into trouble if there are cards being used where liquor is being served. I need you to put those away!"
"...and if you're too afraid of goin' astray, you won't go anywhere." - Granny Weatherwax
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dcjames Special user 577 Posts |
Nope. No bar. It was a 'family style' restaurant with a huge menu. One could get anything from Greek food to a burger and fries, which is why we liked to go there... something for everyone.
The weird thing is that we had been there several times before without issue. Perhaps the owner had never noticed us playing with our 'toys' before. Who knows? We never went back there again.
“Magic is very easy to do - poorly.”
Tommy Wonder The Books of Wonder Volume 2 |
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DanielMooncalf Regular user Kansas City 113 Posts |
Save the con game demos for a paid performance.
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Genghis Regular user Derby UK 180 Posts |
Quote:
On 2010-03-09 17:18, Bill Palmer wrote: Did he have to pay the police department for this? Genghis |
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fireperformer911 Special user 547 Posts |
What about a Sign that said Con Game Demo or Magic Show? Would that make difference to Law Enforcement and Spectators Perceptions?
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Paco iglacias New user 70 Posts |
The problem with that is that if you can get away with it. so can the real cons. so all it takes is a con man with a sign that says "magic show" and he's free to politely rob people. The cops cant really let that slide, so if they see anything that looks remotely like a con, they feel they have to stop it. Its just they're job. They didn't stop the other buskers because they weren't stopping him for busking, they were stopping him for being a con(in their view), so its just better to avoid any bad connotations with your act and just not do anything looking like a con game.
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