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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » The Gambling Spot » » The Man Who Was Erdnase (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

ein_doppelganger
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Just picked up this book and so far it is a great read. I am aware the MF Andrews lead is controversial but the book has been nice bcause it covers more than just the links between this unfortunate fellow and the mysterious Erdnase. There are chapters covering technique, the evolution of jargon, and various other personalities of the time. Its similar to Magician and the Cardsharp in the manner which it evokes those halcyon days of gamblers, games, and sharks.

Since we know not everyone believes MF Andrews is the man is there a consolidated source that tried to refute this book? I'd like to read other points of view on the identity of Erdnase but frankly it seems this is the only organized source. Other theories are just buried in threads on various boards. I have watched the discussion between Simon Lovell and Wesley James on why they don't think MF Andrews was Erdnase but that's about the extent of it.

Incidentally the book mentions CRD Sharper from Road Hustler and seems to suggest a name for this fellow. It was a Greek name, Vasakapolos I believe... I was not aware this man was ever revealed.

Its about time someone compiled a book on all the theories.
Vasilis
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There is not such a Greek name...That's for sure. Similar to this, could be, something like Vasilopoulos or Vasilakopoulos, but the name that mentioned above, no...Never exists such a name down here...

The whole thing about his really identity,remains a mystery indeed...
stoneunhinged
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It's just my opinion, of course, but I have always thought that the assumption that "Erdnase" is "Andrews" is faulty. It might be true, but the assumption is based on convenience.

Just for example, "Erdnase" would also be German for "Dirt Nose". Maybe Erdnase was fluent in German and was playing around with words a bit.

Who knows?
luvisi
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Maybe it's a red herring. Erdnase did know a thing or two about misdirection, after all.

Andru
silverking
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"The Man Who Was Erdnase" is a grossly flawed book, but one that remains one of the absolute cornerstones for those doing Erdnase research.

Bart Whaley especially, is a brilliant researcher (which of course doesn't mean he's always right, but that his ability to conduct research is amazing).
The book contains a wide spectrum of information, some of which is quite unique, some of which is not accurate, and some of which is wild fantasy.

The elephant in the living room is the Andrews premise, compounded by the (three) authors undying insistence that they have "found" Erdnase. A premise that they all stick with to this day.

Simply put, they haven't found anybody. Their research is deep, but their conclusions are severely faulty.

Only a fool would say with absolute assurance that Andrews wasn't Erdnase, equally as foolish as saying with absolute assurance that he was Erdnase.

The bottom line is simply that the research isn't complete yet, and this book was decades ahead of the discovery of any actual facts related to Erdnase's identity.............obviously, we're not yet there even today.

The major flaw in this book is the "leaps of faith" the authors take in order to make their premise work. Removing the leaps of faith, one is left with 100% disconnect between parties that otherwise would have no reason to associate with each other.
The authors also maintain a bit too much confidence in statements made by people who (at least for portions of their lives) lied for living.

There aren't a whole lot of these books around. I forget the actual print run, but it wasn't a lot.
I don't expect this would ever see a reprint, simply because of the "scattering" of the authors over time, and the verticality of the subject matter.

The definitive and ongoing work on the subject is recorded in one of the most amazing threads on Erdnase available, on the Genii forum:
http://www.geniimagazine.com/forums/ubbt......ost12447

Dick Hatch and David Alexander especially, deserve deep reading in this thread. Their candidates (each has a different one) remain much more likely to have their names associated with Erdnase than any other put forth to date.
Paul H
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As I understand it, one of the main causes for contention was the discrepency between the illustrators physical description of Erdnase compared to the M F Andrews candidate. Erdnase was described as a man of small stature about 5ft 6 inches tall whereas M F Andrews stood 6ft 1" in stocking feet. The illustrator descibes looking down at Erdnase whereas he would have to have looked up at M F Andrews. A great analysis of the ideas and theories is contained in the later volumes of Allen Ackerman's Erdnase DVD set.

Regards,

Paul
ein_doppelganger
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Thanks for the thoughts Silverking and the link! I will check out that thread now. The research is quite impressive. I have also been bothered by how much hangs on the word of EL Pratt and other who, as you said, were professional liars!

One of my favorite theories is that E S Andrews is a cyclical nod back to the title page artifice ruse and subterfuge which when reversed is
E S AND RUSE
quite musing : )
RS1963
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Regardless of if M.F. Andrews was Erdnase or not. It has been shown that he certainly was a card cheat. It is an interesting book. Even if you know some "facts" are not in anyway shape or form the true facts there is quite a bit of interesting information. We may never know for sure who Erdanase was. If we could travel back in time perhaps we could find out the answer to who he really was. But that's not going to happen. Well at least not in any of out life times I'm sure.
silverking
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Quote:
On 2010-04-02 16:37, Paul H wrote:
As I understand it, one of the main causes for contention was the discrepency between the illustrators physical description of Erdnase compared to the M F Andrews candidate. Erdnase was described as a man of small stature about 5ft 6 inches tall whereas M F Andrews stood 6ft 1" in stocking feet.

A prime example of "leaps of faith" taken by the authors, and those who support the authors conclusion that Erdnase was Andrews.

The retort offered by these folks when confronted with this rather severe piece of evidence that Andrews couldn't be Erdnase is the retort "well, Smith must have remembered wrong".

Or another example of this kind of thinking is the different response to the same question "well, the chap Smith met in the Chicago hotel room obviously wasn't Erdnase, just a man claiming to be Erdnase".

By the time anybody has read the entire Genii thread, they'll have seen every retort from Andrews supporters under the sun, most requiring some sort of stretch towards the fact that Smith obviously didn't remember the correct details of what Erdnase looked like.

Of course with Smith the only person in the entire story who ever actually met Erdnase, if you can appear to discredit Smith's story, you can pretty make Erdnase anybody you want him to be (which some have indeed done already).

Applying Occams Razor to the story though, Smith's description of Erdnase is probably highly accurate, and the man Smith met in the Chicago hotel room was indeed the man claiming his name was "Erdnase", and the man who wrote the book..........whomever that might be.

Look to Dick Hatch and David Alexander, perhaps Todd Karr for accurate research today.............most other current theorists have made one of the "adjustments" above, and come across more as somewhat of a crackpot.
tommy
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I was told it was good book, apart from it not being The Man. I have not got yet though.
If there is a single truth about Magic, it is that nothing on earth so efficiently evades it.

Tommy
stoneunhinged
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Thanks for that link, Silver. I've worked through only about five pages of it and am stunned at how little I knew about the search for Erdnase. I guess that in the back of my mind I had not considered the idea that a few people were reporting so much of their own investigations without saving it for a book.

There's some real meat in that thread. But takes time, discretion, and effort to get through it. Which I'm going back to do right now.
AMcD
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Quote:
On 2010-04-02 16:46, RS1963 wrote:
It has been shown that he certainly was a card cheat.


I strongly doubt about that. OK, I'm not an authority on the subject (Erdnase).
kcg5
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Good, cause he was talking about Andrews Smile
Nobody expects the spanish inquisition!!!!!



"History will be kind to me, as I intend to write it"- Sir Winston Churchill
Paul H
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There is some corroborative evidence that M F Andrews was indeed a card cheat and he is currently the only candidate with this kind of history. However, the stature problem combined with his writing style being far from the erudite Erdnase along with other issues continues to undermine the claim made on his behalf for the Erdnase crown.

Regards,

Paul
RCP
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It's a good read but the real Erdnase was none other than Pop Haydn. It's a historical fact, I was there and saw the whole thing. Honest Injuuuuun!
Whit Haydn
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Ridiculous! I am only a sure-thing gambler. I have never cheated at card games. Too many variables...
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