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bdekolta
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I was reading The Jinx over lunch today. After talking about exposure and the impact of television Annemann writes this in The Jinx Winter Extra 1937-1938:

Quote:
We've gradually learned that the only way to stop or impede exposing is to do it through the publishers and editors. After talking to a few of late, we've found them wholeheartedly in favor of the magician, and morally against the lice who turn their secrets over to the public for a few dollars or their name and picture in print. Most of the editors who use such material are convinced by the magus himself that is is interesting stuff and material of no value.....The editor just doesn't believe that a performer would expose anything of great importance to his own trade...


Annemann then goes on and talks about the S.A.M. and their not expelling anyone for exposure up to that point.
lane99
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 16:04, Lord Of The Horses wrote:
...showed once the method for Zig-Zag Girl or the old Center Tear and they remembered vividly the HOW TO even after many years...


Well, I presume they remembered those "vividly" because there's not much to remember. The methods are very uncomplicated and simplistic (once known).

OTOH, a week later I doubt many non-magicians would remember the specifics of the MOABT methodology.

...Incidentally, last week there was a magician on our local tv show performing Zig-Zag Girl.
Dr. Eamon
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--------eXtrementalism--------......IT'S ALL IN YOUR MIND.....
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Even if they see a completely different booktest performed, laymen will think they know it all… even after many years.
Lord Of The Horses
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 17:41, lane99 wrote:

OTOH, a week later I doubt many non-magicians would remember the specifics of the MOABT methodology.



And I am sure many will remember.
Then you'll rise right before my eyes, on wings that fill the sky, like a phoenix rising!
David Alexander
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I always thought that the major damage from a program like the Masked Magician was the emphasis on the "trick box." The message was that the prop was everything and that the performer brought little to the equation.

Essentially, the message went, anyone who had the money to buy the box and hire the pretty girls could be a magician. The main result of this was the denigration and trivialization of the performer.

Biss damages us all by exposing the simple methods used by mentalists (not fake psychics) and elicits the response from the audience of, “Oh there isn’t much to it.” While the spectator may or may not remember salient details they will have the attitude that there “isn’t much to the secret” which cheapens and denigrates the performance of magic and mentalism.

This does not work in our favor, or, in the long run, in Biss’ either. But since he is a fool, he will never understand this.
Bastien
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As for whether a laymen remembers specific methods:

Darwin Ortiz drew a key distinction in his book "Strong Magic" between the way a layman thinks and the way a magician (or in many cases mentalist) thinks.

If a layman knows 10% of how a trick is done, then he is apt to conclude that he knows how the whole trick works. By contrast, a magician might know how most of a trick works, but if he's fooled by the final reveal, he's still impressed. Why the difference?

If a layman looks behind the stage and sees a series of cables and wires and later watches a magician fly, the illusion is shattered. He might not know the exact mechanics of what the wires do, but he knows wires are involved and the magician isn't really doing it. Magicians who object and say "Oh yeah, well how did I do this other part" miss this point entirely. Such exposure in and of itself isn't fatal for magic, because many audiences can still appreciate the visualness involved in a magic performance. But can the same be said for a mentalism show?

So I'm afraid the effect of exposing methods such as MOAB may be more devastating than it initially seems.
chichi711
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I know I am about to paint with a broad brush but here goes anyways. So a lot of Magicians get into magic, because they might feel a little socially awkward, or want attention, be the life of a party etc. So what happens when they gather that attention and then people do the "how did you do that!" well they still want to be the life of the party, so they give in and say this is how I did it. What they don't realize is that in that moment they killed everything they were shooting for. One day they figure that out and then justify it by saying its laymen they'll never remember. The sad thing is they have done far worse than they will admit and the quote by Ortiz is spot on.

Now what does the computer age bring? Well these guys don't even have to walk out the door anymore to be "popular" and have people love them. They can just hook up the camera and shoot something and post it on youtube. What follows is a few people that complain and call names (still giving attention) and then the rest all tell them thanks for the teaching session etc. So now they can be an introvert and still be the life of the party. Wow win win for them. It also means this problem isn't going to stop until people stop publishing material. That wont happen either, so I guess live with it.
Magnus Eisengrim
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As for MOAB, unfortunately the method has been tipped several times here at the Café. I don't own it; I don't want to know how it's done. But it's so talked about that it's pretty hard NOT to know how it works.

Sadly, Youtube isn't the only place where commercial magic secrets are given away for free.

John
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.--Yeats
mindpunisher
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Quote:
On 2010-04-06 23:22, chichi711 wrote:
I know I am about to paint with a broad brush but here goes anyways. So a lot of Magicians get into magic, because they might feel a little socially awkward, or want attention, be the life of a party etc. So what happens when they gather that attention and then people do the "how did you do that!" well they still want to be the life of the party, so they give in and say this is how I did it. What they don't realize is that in that moment they killed everything they were shooting for. One day they figure that out and then justify it by saying its laymen they'll never remember. The sad thing is they have done far worse than they will admit and the quote by Ortiz is spot on.

Now what does the computer age bring? Well these guys don't even have to walk out the door anymore to be "popular" and have people love them. They can just hook up the camera and shoot something and post it on youtube. What follows is a few people that complain and call names (still giving attention) and then the rest all tell them thanks for the teaching session etc. So now they can be an introvert and still be the life of the party. Wow win win for them. It also means this problem isn't going to stop until people stop publishing material. That wont happen either, so I guess live with it.


But you can stop supporting the awkward inept Biss.
Matthew Townsend
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I have been looking for the IMB board for ages now with no sucess. After all this, James will never be getting any one my money. EVER.

This sickens me.

M
PSYSHADOW
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Quote : "I'm going to avoid wading into the craziness of the Magic Café and the handful who like to stir up debate. I really don't have the time to get involved in that sink hole".

Oh Really, Biss ?

Do you forget that many of us have spent a long time saving up for effects that you are so willing to expose ?

The only thing that should be put down the "Sink-Hole" is YOU !

The magic Café is not "Crazy" But YOU need therapy !

YOU ARE A DISGUSTING INSULT TO THE MAGIC AND MENTALISM FRATERNITY !
Peace in the World - or - the World in Pieces
IAIN
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I think the next book he releases should be called "Biss takes the P*ss"...
I've asked to be banned
JanForster
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No, should be called: "Biss masters the Pass". Jan
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entity
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Quote:
On 2010-04-07 08:14, PSYSHADOW wrote:
The magic Café is not "Crazy"


Well, maybe a little crazy...

- entity
Pete Legend
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Ha yeah to be fair a little crazy is about right Smile
JanForster
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We are, otherwise we wouldn't do what we do. So the Café reflects us. That is o.k. Smile Jan
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Sven Rygh
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Oh well.
I guess it will take some time before James Biss try to advertizing "his" material again.

Sven
PWRIS
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I have noticed that the videos heve been taken off YouTube by the owner! Thankyou owner Smile Paul
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Eshla
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They wern't taken down willingly, James Biss should never have exposed stuff.
I come from the future to culture you poor sods with fire.
John C
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Quote:
On 2010-04-11 08:38, Eshla wrote:
They wern't taken down willingly, James Biss should never have exposed stuff.


But I bet you learned a lot while they were up though huh esh?

j
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