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The Magic Cafe Forum Index » » Ever so sleightly » » The JDG Fundamental Cups~ made by Donnie Buckley (0 Likes) Printer Friendly Version

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Tom Fenton
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Beautiful cups.

Is it me or do they look a bit like Phoenix II's without the bead?
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cupsandballsmagic
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I think you may be right Tom, but look at those "D" cup saddles!
Tom Fenton
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I am sorely tempted!
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dcjames
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Although I am typically not much a fan of a beadless cup design, the JDG Fundamentals are quite striking and very tempting indeed.
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Donnie Buckley
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Tom & Bri, you are exactly right, of course!
The Phoenix II design was the starting point for these cups. When Jamie had described to me what he wanted, I went thru a couple of other options until I landed on the Phoenix II. The Phoenix II is spun from .064 copper and met the requirements he needed. It only took a little tweaking and the omission of the center beads to give Jamie his JDG Fundamental Cups.
It makes sense in the evolution of things:
1. The original cup was the Ross Bertram Cups.
2. The cup was then coined "A Man's Cup" by Charlie Miller and became the Charlie Miller Cups.
3. The cups are reborn as the Tom Frank Phoenix Cups (another street guy who recognized the value of the robust cup design).
4. The cup was then re-designed as the Phoenix II Cups by Jake Z of RNT2.
5. Now, the cup evolves to a "shell game type" design as the JDG Fundamental Cups AND brings with it all the improvements that others have added into the cup.

It's interesting how a clunky, old, poorly spun, wide-open mouth bead, wobbly cup with it's spin lines showing, like the original Bertram and Miller Cups, evolved into something as elegant and tight as the Phoenix II cups, and now the JDG Fundamental cups. These are rock solid cups and if you didn't KNOW that they are decendents of Bertram/Miller Cups, you wouldn't even recognize it.

More photos of the JDG Fundamental Cups will be up on the website today under the Street Cups listings. I'm working on them right now.
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Bill Palmer
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Point of information -- the original Ross Bertram cups had no spin lines showing at all. This was one of the points of contention between Ross Bertram and Jay Marshall when Jay had the Magic, Inc. version of the Bertram cups spun. The spinner in
Chigago (presumably) added the shoulder bead with a roller that left a mark about 3/8 of an inch above and below the shoulder bead.

Ross hated this. This is one reason that he asked Jay to take his name off the cups.

The roller mark is sometimes just a flat surface. On a couple of the runs of the "Miller" cups, the roller marks are very pronounced.

Ross also always gave a very high polish to his cups.
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Donnie Buckley
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Thanks Bill. I knew that. It was unfair of me to include Ross's name in my description of the Magic, Inc cups.
The set that I have is a set of the Magic, Inc. cups. I bought them new from Ted Carrothers in Toledo, OH many years ago, they have the roller marks around the shoulder bead and they were not polished well.
The JDG Fundamental Cups will never have that problem. Smile
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
Bill Palmer
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Donnie -- it's not a problem. Think about this -- there are a lot of people who think that the Magic Inc. cups are the same as the Bertram cups. Mike Rogers was the one who pointed out the roller marks to me.

Ironically, I have his Bertram cups now.

I hope he doesn't mind. Smile
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panlives
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Ok, I am salivating.

Hope it won't corrode the finish...
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Mobius303
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Somehow I think Mike would be happy they are in the museum.
Donnie, Doc was a friend of Ross Bertram and his set was spun and polished for him personally by Ross.
Next time Paul or I Get together with him maybe, we can get some pics of them along with some great cups stories.
The new cups look fantastic...well done again.
Mike
Bill Palmer
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Mike and I got along very well. When I was doing some of my very early collecting, he gave me some guidance.
"The Swatter"

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My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

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motown
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Here's a thought for transporting the cups stacked. Buy some panty hose and cut toward the bottom, leaving enough length to fold inside the cups. That should keep them safe.
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panlives
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Quote:
On 2010-10-22 20:47, Jamie D. Grant wrote:
Hurrah!

I'm doing my happy dance! The FINAL prototype is now in my possession- I guess that's not a prototype anymore then is it, lol. And, not to "hurrah" Donny and myself too much, I'm going to give us three cheers anyways. Things I like about what we did:

A) We didn't take pre-orders.
B) We made sure that all parties concerned (and there's a lot of them when you make something new) are happy.
C) We waited until we got it the way we wanted.

And what did we want? Well:

1) No bead. This was the whole point! I had come off the success of my first time busking and wanted something that looked more like a cup (to me).

2) Heavy. I didn't want to worry about dropping them and having them shatter. These are cups that will be used on the streets. Dropped, thrown, kicked, loved.

3) They had to fit a tennis ball. If I went traveling anywhere in the world, I wanted to be able to find a final load.

4) They had to hold up to three "peas" on top (I use a three shell game patter, based on James Prince awesome routining) in a beautiful way. This was the hardest part and Donnie rose to the challenge!!! By eliminating the bead around the top of the cup that you see in lot of cups, he created a larger viewing surface. But unlike the ones I've seen, it's a bit bigger, so there's no concern about them rolling off.

5) And lastly, I'm going to include my first person- true story account- of my hustling on the streets with a real hustler. I use this presentation in every show I've done with the cups and balls and is one my my most prized anecdotes.

So, without further ado, let me present to you our JDG Fundamentals!

Image


Image


Image


Image


Image


All that's left now is for me to film my presentation and the routining (again, from the generous James Prince). Hopefully, I'll have that wrapped up by mid-November.

Hip hip...

jamie


Hi Jamie,

What is the name of the James Prince routine you mentioned and where is it available?

Your Cups are a dream. Thanks to you and Donnie for this gift to our magic.
"Is there any point to which you would wish to draw my attention?"
"To the curious incident of the dog in the night-time."
"The dog did nothing in the night-time."
"That was the curious incident," remarked Sherlock Holmes.
Dale Houck
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Jamie... the cups look fantastic. I'd love to see your routine with them.
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Jamie D. Grant
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I just finished filming footage this weekend with Bill Abbott, Daniel Garcia, and Master Payne, for the DVD that's going to be included.

This is just a super-fun extra something that I wanted to include. The DVD will not have menus, graphics, design, or anything hip about it, lol. I want it to be just straight to the point (to get across the routine and my take on it) and totally basic (i.e. Fundamental). I'll let you know how it goes ~I'll be editing this week!

Just an update,

jamie
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Bill Palmer
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Jamie:

Please include menus, so we can find the sections we want to view. Having no menus is like having a book with no index or title headings.

Please, make it easy on the viewer.

You don't need fancy graphics or weird introductory footage, but at least give us a way to get to the explanations separate from starting at the beginning and fast forwarding.
"The Swatter"

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Jamie D. Grant
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Quote:
On 2010-11-08 18:03, Bill Palmer wrote:
Jamie:

Please include menus, so we can find the sections we want to view. Having no menus is like having a book with no index or title headings.

Please, make it easy on the viewer.

You don't need fancy graphics or weird introductory footage, but at least give us a way to get to the explanations separate from starting at the beginning and fast forwarding.


I'll take that into consideration, only because your judgment is golden! But, to be honest, it's not going to be that long. Basically, it'll have:

A) Master Payne talking a bit about some history.
B) Bill Abbott going over his thoughts on the False Transfer
C) Daniel Garcia listening to me telling the anecdote that started all of this (Me and Sal Piacente hustling 3 Card Monte a couple of years ago).

and then,

D) Me going through the routine that James Prince has wonderfully contributed.

+

Some live footage of me performing the routine.

Okay, now that I've typed that out, maybe I'll toss in some menus, lol!

~jamie

Image
TRICK OF THE YEAR: Industrial Revelation, BOOK OF THE YEAR: The Approach, The AIP Bottle, and my new book Scenic 52, can all be found over here: SendWonder.com
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Bill Palmer
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That really sounds good to me. I can't wait to get a set of these.
"The Swatter"

Founder of CODBAMMC

My Chickasaw name is "Throws Money at Cups."

www.cupsandballsmuseum.com
Jamie D. Grant
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Trailer's now up!

Image

click the pic to watch

I'm just burning the Bonus DVD as we speak- hurrah!

http://www.rnt2.com/index.php?target=pro......id=30335

Thanks for everyone's help with this!

~jamie
TRICK OF THE YEAR: Industrial Revelation, BOOK OF THE YEAR: The Approach, The AIP Bottle, and my new book Scenic 52, can all be found over here: SendWonder.com
Kindness takes practice. My TEDx talk
Donnie Buckley
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Hurray!
Learn the form, but seek the formless. Learn it all, then forget it all. Learn the way, then find your own way. Rings-N-Things
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